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In Solidarity with Ukraine
- Thread starter KoNickon
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peterm1
Veteran
I enjoy listening to these guys from "Triggernometry" on Youtube and Facebook.
Konstantin Kisin, - the guy talking - is a Brit of Russian extraction.
He is balanced and intelligent and has some interesting perspectives on this conflict and why it is where it is at.
War in Ukraine Explained - YouTube
Konstantin Kisin, - the guy talking - is a Brit of Russian extraction.
He is balanced and intelligent and has some interesting perspectives on this conflict and why it is where it is at.
War in Ukraine Explained - YouTube
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
“Putin's apologists seem to be coming out of the woodwork here at RFF. Glad to see you are showing yourselves.
Chris”
This was me, I suppose. Crawling out of the woodwork, putting forth all kinds of propositions that no one has bothered to refute. That’s okay, I’m just a Russian bot, as you say.
I never expected to get as fair a hearing as I did, to be honest, and I don’t want anyone to believe anything based on my word alone. My only purpose was to, perhaps, motivate even one person to look a little closer and dig a little deeper into the history of the area, including first causes. It was a big ask of people who might study the situation assiduously by following PBS, NPR, the NYT, the BBC, Reuters, the AP, and the Washington Post, all of the above, and thus think they are somehow getting different viewpoints. It’s one viewpoint, it’s one narrative. There are others; others which people in the West are mostly blocked from ever seeing. Without being exposed to those, there is no way for educated people to “make up their own minds.”
Here is a partial this list of conflicts and death tolls since 1980.
–West Papua War, ~300,000 dead
–Guatemalan Civil war, ~100,000 dead
–El Salvadorian Civil war, ~75,000 dead
–Shining path insurgency in Peru, ~60,000 dead
–The Iran-Iraq war, ~1,000,000 dead
–The Ugandan Bush war, ~300,000 dead
–1982 Lebanon war, ~18,500 dead
–Second Sudanese Civil war, ~1,750,000 dead
–Sri Lankan Civil war, ~100,000 dead
–1983 Kurdish rebellion, ~110,000 dead
–Marxist revolt in Sri Lanka, ~70,000 dead
–LRA insurgency in Uganda, ~100,000 dead
–First Armenian-Azeri war, ~35,000 dead
–Bougainville conflict, ~17,500 dead
–Afghan civil war 1989-1992, unknown but in the tens of thousands
–Kashmir insurgency, ~75,000 dead
–First Liberian Civil war, ~200,000 dead
–Rwandan Civil war, ~650,000 dead
–Croatian war of independence, ~23,000 dead
–Sierra Leone Civil war, ~60,000 dead
–Algerian Civil war, ~150,000 dead
–1991 Iraqi uprising, ~100,000 dead
–Afghan Civil war 1992-1996, unknown but in the tens of thousands
–Abkhazian war, ~27,500 dead
–Tajikistan Civil war, ~50,000 dead
–Burundi Civil war, ~300,000 dead
–Second Armenian-Azeri war, ~34,000 dead
–1994 Yemeni Civil war, ~10,000 dead
–First Chechen war, ~70,000 dead
–Nepal Civil war, ~17,800 dead
–Afghan Civil war 1996-2001, unknown but in the tens of thousands
–First Congo war, ~500,000 dead
–Republic of the Congo Civil war, ~20,000 dead
–Eritrean-Ethiopian war, ~300,000 dead
–Second Congo war, ~5,500,000 dead
–Second Liberian Civil war, ~50,000 dead
–Ituri war, ~63,700 dead
–Second Chechen war, ~175,000 dead
–War in Darfur, ~300,000 dead
–Niger Delta war, ~15,000 dead
–Yemen Civil war, ~377,000 dead
–Kivu Conflict, unknown but in the hundreds of thousands
–Mexican drug war, ~375,000 dead
–Boko Haram insurgency, ~350,000 dead
–South Sudanese Civil war, ~383,000 dead
–Second Libyan Civil war, ~15,000 dead
–Tigray war, ~10,000 dead
All horrible, and all fairly recent. Who got crippling sanctions in any of those instances?
The only time that we get these massive campaigns by the government/media regarding the terrible tragedy of death in some country 98% of Americans can’t point to on a map is when there is some other agenda at work. Which there is, here. Just think about it, that’s all I was asking, though I never thought there would be many takers in today’s climate.
Another thought experiment: What would the U.S. do if Iran, or China, or Russia, or any hostile nation, promised to put military installations in Northern Mexico, aimed at the U.S., and the U.S. kept, first, asking those countries not to do that, and, later, after the asking proved fruitless, telling those countries that refusing to take those threats off the table would result in a “military and technical” response from the U.S.? And those countries still refused. To ask the question is to answer it. It’s fair to say that the invasion of Ukraine is horrible; it isn’t honest to claim it was unprovoked. Or wasn’t inevitable under the circumstances. The problem isn’t just that people don’t understand the circumstances, and they don’t; the problem is that most people in the West don’t even want to understand the circumstances, because the promulgated narrative is both so ready at hand and so emotionally satisfying.
Again, I expect to be pilloried for this by most people here; that doesn’t bother me. My only reason for taking the time isn’t to be anyone’s “apologist”, it’s to maybe stimulate someone to question their beliefs, starting with questioning their sources, and looking at others, always with skepticism, no matter what they are. If the news media you are imbibing has given you breathless stories about the “Ghost of Kiev” and the “Brave Sailors on Snake Island” who refused to surrender and went to their glorious deaths screaming “F U” at Russian warships, maybe you’d begin to wonder which sources are the ones lying to you. Just saying.
I’m probably done here, on this subject, though I’m not upset, intimidated, or annoyed, or tempted to call anyone else names.
Read, and not just the same thing you’ve been reading for 20 years. Actively seek out the information that Facebook and Youtube prevents you from readily accessing. Some of it is garbage, some of it is better than the information Youtube or NPR allows you to see, wants you to see. Evaluate it, then ask yourself, if it’s reasonable, why authority didn’t want you to see it. Nobody will understand the situation in Ukraine in a week, a month, or a year, if they are coming at it fresh. Think. Drink from a different well now and then.
Or, just follow the crowd and don’t do any of that. At least you will have a lot of company, and they’ll probably have cookies.
Chris”
This was me, I suppose. Crawling out of the woodwork, putting forth all kinds of propositions that no one has bothered to refute. That’s okay, I’m just a Russian bot, as you say.
I never expected to get as fair a hearing as I did, to be honest, and I don’t want anyone to believe anything based on my word alone. My only purpose was to, perhaps, motivate even one person to look a little closer and dig a little deeper into the history of the area, including first causes. It was a big ask of people who might study the situation assiduously by following PBS, NPR, the NYT, the BBC, Reuters, the AP, and the Washington Post, all of the above, and thus think they are somehow getting different viewpoints. It’s one viewpoint, it’s one narrative. There are others; others which people in the West are mostly blocked from ever seeing. Without being exposed to those, there is no way for educated people to “make up their own minds.”
Here is a partial this list of conflicts and death tolls since 1980.
–West Papua War, ~300,000 dead
–Guatemalan Civil war, ~100,000 dead
–El Salvadorian Civil war, ~75,000 dead
–Shining path insurgency in Peru, ~60,000 dead
–The Iran-Iraq war, ~1,000,000 dead
–The Ugandan Bush war, ~300,000 dead
–1982 Lebanon war, ~18,500 dead
–Second Sudanese Civil war, ~1,750,000 dead
–Sri Lankan Civil war, ~100,000 dead
–1983 Kurdish rebellion, ~110,000 dead
–Marxist revolt in Sri Lanka, ~70,000 dead
–LRA insurgency in Uganda, ~100,000 dead
–First Armenian-Azeri war, ~35,000 dead
–Bougainville conflict, ~17,500 dead
–Afghan civil war 1989-1992, unknown but in the tens of thousands
–Kashmir insurgency, ~75,000 dead
–First Liberian Civil war, ~200,000 dead
–Rwandan Civil war, ~650,000 dead
–Croatian war of independence, ~23,000 dead
–Sierra Leone Civil war, ~60,000 dead
–Algerian Civil war, ~150,000 dead
–1991 Iraqi uprising, ~100,000 dead
–Afghan Civil war 1992-1996, unknown but in the tens of thousands
–Abkhazian war, ~27,500 dead
–Tajikistan Civil war, ~50,000 dead
–Burundi Civil war, ~300,000 dead
–Second Armenian-Azeri war, ~34,000 dead
–1994 Yemeni Civil war, ~10,000 dead
–First Chechen war, ~70,000 dead
–Nepal Civil war, ~17,800 dead
–Afghan Civil war 1996-2001, unknown but in the tens of thousands
–First Congo war, ~500,000 dead
–Republic of the Congo Civil war, ~20,000 dead
–Eritrean-Ethiopian war, ~300,000 dead
–Second Congo war, ~5,500,000 dead
–Second Liberian Civil war, ~50,000 dead
–Ituri war, ~63,700 dead
–Second Chechen war, ~175,000 dead
–War in Darfur, ~300,000 dead
–Niger Delta war, ~15,000 dead
–Yemen Civil war, ~377,000 dead
–Kivu Conflict, unknown but in the hundreds of thousands
–Mexican drug war, ~375,000 dead
–Boko Haram insurgency, ~350,000 dead
–South Sudanese Civil war, ~383,000 dead
–Second Libyan Civil war, ~15,000 dead
–Tigray war, ~10,000 dead
All horrible, and all fairly recent. Who got crippling sanctions in any of those instances?
The only time that we get these massive campaigns by the government/media regarding the terrible tragedy of death in some country 98% of Americans can’t point to on a map is when there is some other agenda at work. Which there is, here. Just think about it, that’s all I was asking, though I never thought there would be many takers in today’s climate.
Another thought experiment: What would the U.S. do if Iran, or China, or Russia, or any hostile nation, promised to put military installations in Northern Mexico, aimed at the U.S., and the U.S. kept, first, asking those countries not to do that, and, later, after the asking proved fruitless, telling those countries that refusing to take those threats off the table would result in a “military and technical” response from the U.S.? And those countries still refused. To ask the question is to answer it. It’s fair to say that the invasion of Ukraine is horrible; it isn’t honest to claim it was unprovoked. Or wasn’t inevitable under the circumstances. The problem isn’t just that people don’t understand the circumstances, and they don’t; the problem is that most people in the West don’t even want to understand the circumstances, because the promulgated narrative is both so ready at hand and so emotionally satisfying.
Again, I expect to be pilloried for this by most people here; that doesn’t bother me. My only reason for taking the time isn’t to be anyone’s “apologist”, it’s to maybe stimulate someone to question their beliefs, starting with questioning their sources, and looking at others, always with skepticism, no matter what they are. If the news media you are imbibing has given you breathless stories about the “Ghost of Kiev” and the “Brave Sailors on Snake Island” who refused to surrender and went to their glorious deaths screaming “F U” at Russian warships, maybe you’d begin to wonder which sources are the ones lying to you. Just saying.
I’m probably done here, on this subject, though I’m not upset, intimidated, or annoyed, or tempted to call anyone else names.
Read, and not just the same thing you’ve been reading for 20 years. Actively seek out the information that Facebook and Youtube prevents you from readily accessing. Some of it is garbage, some of it is better than the information Youtube or NPR allows you to see, wants you to see. Evaluate it, then ask yourself, if it’s reasonable, why authority didn’t want you to see it. Nobody will understand the situation in Ukraine in a week, a month, or a year, if they are coming at it fresh. Think. Drink from a different well now and then.
Or, just follow the crowd and don’t do any of that. At least you will have a lot of company, and they’ll probably have cookies.
Yokosuka Mike
Abstract Clarity
Borge H
Established
One of my Ph.D-students had a favorite saying when he met some stupid people. He used to say: "Half of the population are stupider than average!".
I guess this applies to all countries!
As Swedish citizens in our small country, it is worrying that some here think that it is perfectly OK for a large neighboring country to tell us what to do, otherwise we will be "punished with military measures".
By the way, I do not think you need to listen or read the treacherous lies from the Russian media like RT. A good memory is enough! Examples:
Which country would absolutely not occupy Ukraine when the military exercises were over?
Which country does not respect the borders of countries but must "correct the map" so that it agrees with their historical view?
People are dying in Ukraine, not in Moscow!
By the way, my ancestors the Vikings sailed over to the east and killed the inhabitants, plundered and started settlements. We then called the country "Rusland", the inhabitants were callad ruser! It was around year 1000. But no modern swedish citizen wants to re-establish these old possessions.
Killed family (mother, son and doughter) in Irpin, Ukraine, only two terriers survived, (source: https://newyorklatestnews.com/husba...e-is-still-on-the-floor-of-the-morgue/425523/).
Archlich
Well-known
The Kremlin has repeatedly made it very clear since day 1: they acknowledge the sovereignty and seek no occupation of Ukraine (or the entirety of it, I gather).
Look, either one of these is true: that the Russians are a hopeless bunch of territory-and-war-hungry villain-idiots straight out of comic books that can't see what the ordinary folks (and Moscow's own government-backed think tanks like the RIAC - check out their opinion here) can already see, especially after the US's disastrous exodus from Afghanistan last year, that they're hellbent to conquer a nation as big as Afghanistan and faithfully go through all the trouble to occupy, setting up puppet government, quenching endless revolts, etc. - in short, holding on to a land they cannot hold, while suffering catastrophic economic damage, with an economy only 1/10 that of the size of, like China;
Or they're old fashioned (like around the 1850s) rational players that really mean what they say, that the war is waged as a rather violent way of diplomacy, since normal diplomacy could get them nowhere. They evaluated all the likely scenario, made the calculation, and still decided to go for it. That's why they have kept the diplomatic channel open and had the talks went on one round after another. They'll quit once their security concern and geopolitical interests have been met.
No, now that it has come down to war which is the most costly of all means, they won't go home empty-handed or even without an additional trophy or two (like the two separatist states and various ports on the Black Sea). But all is on the bidding table.
In a way, Zelenskyy is Moscow's dearest baby at the moment, and Putin is the last person on earth that wishes ill for the Ukrainian president's personal safety. Should anything happen to the nation's popular leader, the Russians will have not a single, legitimate entity but a boiling mess to negotiate with. That will ruin it all for them.
Sonnar Brian
Established
An estimated 100Billion in damages to the Ukraine and Russia isolating themselves from the rest of the world.
Putin has already ruined it for everyone.
The West is at fault for funding this operation through the purchase of Oil, Natural Gas, and raw material from Russia. Russia does not have a monopoly on resources. Putin must have figured the West would shut up and be happy with cheap oil and gas.
This will be a replay of the Cold War that finally ended the Soviet Union. The West has been given a wake-up call. Let's hope they do.
Zelensky - I hope he comes out of this alive. I doubt he will capitulate to Putin.
Putin has already ruined it for everyone.
The West is at fault for funding this operation through the purchase of Oil, Natural Gas, and raw material from Russia. Russia does not have a monopoly on resources. Putin must have figured the West would shut up and be happy with cheap oil and gas.
This will be a replay of the Cold War that finally ended the Soviet Union. The West has been given a wake-up call. Let's hope they do.
Zelensky - I hope he comes out of this alive. I doubt he will capitulate to Putin.
Archlich
Well-known
BTW why the Russians hadn't taken Kyiv as soon as some spectators had expected is simple:
The current regime, being essentially Russian nationalists (instead of "hardline communists", good Lord), couldn't bear to do this to the ancient capital of Kievan Rus, which will damage their legitimacy back home badly. For now.
Sun Tzu: never corner a dog. It'll bite.
The current regime, being essentially Russian nationalists (instead of "hardline communists", good Lord), couldn't bear to do this to the ancient capital of Kievan Rus, which will damage their legitimacy back home badly. For now.
Sun Tzu: never corner a dog. It'll bite.
james.liam
Well-known
Whatever one's views are or the narrative one 'buys' into, there's a brutish equation that has always followed the Russian 'way of war'. Rape, pillage, random acts of unspeakable and pointless brutality that rivaled the Nazis in the 20th century.
But Russian armies, their peasant soldiery and indifferent/callous commanders have been up to this for centuries.
This isn't a broad stroke against Russians and should not be taken as such. From the earlier times of the Kievan Run, popular opinion has never been taken into account when "leaders" of Russia decide on policy
('Rus' referring to 'rowers'; Vikings who sailed down the river system and creating the first organized polities in the East)
But Russian armies, their peasant soldiery and indifferent/callous commanders have been up to this for centuries.
This isn't a broad stroke against Russians and should not be taken as such. From the earlier times of the Kievan Run, popular opinion has never been taken into account when "leaders" of Russia decide on policy
('Rus' referring to 'rowers'; Vikings who sailed down the river system and creating the first organized polities in the East)
Sonnar Brian
Established
If true, then The War against the Ukraine may play out in Russia as the Viet Nam war did in the US. The younger generation spoke out hard. The War in the Ukraine has already created a generational rift in Russia, the "Connected" generation vs the TV generation.
The Internet is much like Pandora's Box. Putin can try to shut it down, but likely anyone that wants to find out what is happening will find a way. Putin can come down hard on demonstrators, but that may cost him his throne. Nixon was elected by promising to get us out of Viet Nam and Eisenhower was elected by promising to get us out of the Korean War.
The Internet is much like Pandora's Box. Putin can try to shut it down, but likely anyone that wants to find out what is happening will find a way. Putin can come down hard on demonstrators, but that may cost him his throne. Nixon was elected by promising to get us out of Viet Nam and Eisenhower was elected by promising to get us out of the Korean War.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
BTW, a friend in Ukraine sent me this link to use for those wanting to donate humanitarian aid, as opposed to weapons, to people in western Ukraine.
https://helpukraine.center/
https://helpukraine.center/
james.liam
Well-known
That's more wishful thinking than anything else. The military leadership owes its power directly to Putin alone. Opponents are exiled, poisoned or tossed off buildings in 'suicides'.
Since Putin took over the Czarship, there have been two Chechen wars (the last one with saturation bombing and murder of tens of thousands of civilians), war with Georgia, the seizure of Crimea and the Syrian Civil War (poison gas, barrel bombs into neighborhoods, random ballistic missile strikes, summary executions of rebels, use of terrorists as proxies [Hezbollah] and high-altitude saturation bombing). Not a meaningful burp from the EU or NATO, except for the phony 'red-line' from His Eminence Barack Hussein Obama who liked to make noise, do nothing and give the store away (see: JCPOA with Iran).
None of these resulted in an insurgency. That's why Vlad the Merciless reckoned that the EU hooked on his gas and oil would rise up and do...nothing. Heck, the Russians are still representing Iran in Vienna as the Biden regime and the EU (driven by its commercial ambitions) sign articles of capitulation, all the while Iran threatens the lives of former US officials, maintains Western hostages and fires ballistic missiles in the direction of the US Consulate in Kurdistan.
Weakness and cowardice begets and emboldens Evil.
Would be nice if the 'enlightened' Obamanista 'Progressives" in charge of US policy again or the like-minded unelected bureaucrats of Brussels spent an hour reviewing the history of the post-WWI world. I think reading gives them headaches.
Sonnar Brian
Established
We'll find out in a few years how this goes. The Cold War is back on. I remember the last one quite well, and how it ended. Did not go well for the Soviet Union.
james.liam
Well-known
It probably won't end well, as Russia becomes a vassal state of the PRC.
Paul T.
Veteran
The cognitive dissonance of this statement is ear-splitting. Putin's and other despots' useful idiots are free to spout such absurdities in the West. In Putin's gangster state, simply mentioning there's a war can get you 15 years in prison
The Ukrainians, Poles, Romania etc are the ones pushing for membership of NATO precisely because it's sensible to seek mutual protection against a despot on the doorstep, steering a failing state with an unaffordably large army. Putin's idiocy in the Ukraine is the best recruiting tool NATO could possibly invent .
The sad thing about the banal , simplistic conspiracy theories posted by Putin's apologists and appeasers is that everyday Russians suffer under Putin's kleptocracy, too, with incomes and life expectancy plummeting .
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
Paul T.
Well, at least you had the integrity to call me out by name, unlike those who called me “stupid” without being upstanding enough to attach my name to the charge. I sincerely appreciate that, though your comments are still little more than name calling, and still no one has addressed the validity of the arguments I made in my original post. This is not surprising.
“simply mentioning there's a war can get you 15 years in prison”. This isn’t true , is it? I invite people, as I have done from the outset, to find out the truth for themselves. It’s an oppressive law, but there is nothing in it about “simply mentioning there’s a war.” I respect you; but it’s this kind of truth bending to shape a dishonest narrative that I’ve tried to point out was going on. You may sincerely believe that your statement is true, but it isn’t. People can easily look it up, as they could have, but most people here likely didn’t, looked up and read the diplomatic proposal Russia made to the West in December, and decide for themselves whether that proposal was untenable or not.
My point from the beginning was simply that all this could have been easily and painlessly avoided, that Russia had and has had legitimate security concerns vis a vis NATO, etc. There is no point in my restating what I already stated, though it’s impossible not to notice that none of those points has been refuted or even challenged. It’s been nothing but straw man arguments in rebuttal, except from those who couldn’t even mount those, and just defaulted to “you’re stupid”, and “you’re a Putin apologist”, “you’re an appeaser”, and, my favorite, “you’re a conspiracy theorist”. You managed to use 3 out of 4, in one sentence, without even knowing me.
For what it is worth, Poland and Romania are not pushing for membership in NATO, being that they have been NATO states for some years now. Not that I doubt your expertise on Eastern Europe, specifically, and the world in general. But, at least, you did offer a rational reason for why those states would want NATO state status. Rational, but perhaps not wholly persuasive. But, it’s at least worth considering. While considering it, it is worth noting the fact that all the negotiations about NATO membership for Ukraine were taking place between the U.S. and Russia, and the Eastern European nations themselves were only peripherally involved, a fact which Zelensky himself found irking, and complained about, it’s at least fair to say that Russia and the U.S. both know who is in charge of that push for Ukraine’s NATO membership, and why. Even of that isn’t obvious to everyone.
Well, at least you had the integrity to call me out by name, unlike those who called me “stupid” without being upstanding enough to attach my name to the charge. I sincerely appreciate that, though your comments are still little more than name calling, and still no one has addressed the validity of the arguments I made in my original post. This is not surprising.
“simply mentioning there's a war can get you 15 years in prison”. This isn’t true , is it? I invite people, as I have done from the outset, to find out the truth for themselves. It’s an oppressive law, but there is nothing in it about “simply mentioning there’s a war.” I respect you; but it’s this kind of truth bending to shape a dishonest narrative that I’ve tried to point out was going on. You may sincerely believe that your statement is true, but it isn’t. People can easily look it up, as they could have, but most people here likely didn’t, looked up and read the diplomatic proposal Russia made to the West in December, and decide for themselves whether that proposal was untenable or not.
My point from the beginning was simply that all this could have been easily and painlessly avoided, that Russia had and has had legitimate security concerns vis a vis NATO, etc. There is no point in my restating what I already stated, though it’s impossible not to notice that none of those points has been refuted or even challenged. It’s been nothing but straw man arguments in rebuttal, except from those who couldn’t even mount those, and just defaulted to “you’re stupid”, and “you’re a Putin apologist”, “you’re an appeaser”, and, my favorite, “you’re a conspiracy theorist”. You managed to use 3 out of 4, in one sentence, without even knowing me.
For what it is worth, Poland and Romania are not pushing for membership in NATO, being that they have been NATO states for some years now. Not that I doubt your expertise on Eastern Europe, specifically, and the world in general. But, at least, you did offer a rational reason for why those states would want NATO state status. Rational, but perhaps not wholly persuasive. But, it’s at least worth considering. While considering it, it is worth noting the fact that all the negotiations about NATO membership for Ukraine were taking place between the U.S. and Russia, and the Eastern European nations themselves were only peripherally involved, a fact which Zelensky himself found irking, and complained about, it’s at least fair to say that Russia and the U.S. both know who is in charge of that push for Ukraine’s NATO membership, and why. Even of that isn’t obvious to everyone.
Archlich
Well-known
$100B is small number in a geopolitical game of this magnitude. To the Russians it's about survival. I say the damage is already much more than that and spilling over to the rest of the world, despite the supposed isolation. Such has been the degree of globalization of this age we live in.
He cannot capitulate to Putin - signing in a compromise to secession (per Russian demand on formalizing the status of Crimea) is treason and ruins any Ukrainian leader's legitimacy. But it's also his duty, and his duty alone to lead his nation out of utter destruction, since it seems that NATO will not confront Russia directly whatsoever. The Polish-American MiG-29 fiasco being the latest footnote.
He can fight to the last Ukrainian, and in the smoking ruins of Kyiv a Hollywood team will come in to make a bestseller out of him. Russia will be devastated as well, but it's beyond the people of Ukraine, hundred thousands of which would have perished at that point.
Or he can choose to be realistic and tread the fine line of great power politics since after all, he is a politician.
fireblade
Vincenzo.
The wonderful Ukraine Army.....Why isn't this been shown world wide?......shall i continue..........?
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
Seriously? RFF is about posting random Nazi photos now?
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
Local story of a gentleman who escaped the war and came to USA to be with his daughter. Reading this, evoked imagery of WWIII.
Escape from Ukraine: Refugee shares tale of journey from war-torn country
Plymouth, MA – March 9: Oleg Tsarevskyi reacts as he retells the story of escaping the war in Ukraine and joining his daughter Maryna Tsarevska Savitska in the U.S. on March 9, 2022 in Plymouth, Massachusetts. (Staff Photo By Stuart Cahill/Boston Herald)
Escape from Ukraine: Refugee shares tale of journey from war-torn country
Plymouth, MA – March 9: Oleg Tsarevskyi reacts as he retells the story of escaping the war in Ukraine and joining his daughter Maryna Tsarevska Savitska in the U.S. on March 9, 2022 in Plymouth, Massachusetts. (Staff Photo By Stuart Cahill/Boston Herald)
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