Rey
Well-known
Hi everyone,
I had a gas attack last month and purchased a Zorki 4 on e-bay. The seller had a 100% rating (back to 04) and he listed the camera as e++ condition, all mechanics good, speeds accurate, focusing smooth, etc. The photos looked good, only a few paint chips on the black. When I received the camera I found: 1) the lens focus was very stiff, almost immovable, 2) the shutter speed selector jammed, 3) slow speeds work, but stick every so often, 4) heavy, poor quality repaint on the body. I contacted the seller about the lens issue, he apologized and provided repair instructions. I fixed everything (except the slow speeds), stripped off the repaint (nice patina below it) and I now have a respectible Zorki. So what you you all do in this situation? I figure I can contact him again and complain, or give him a poor feedback (after which he will likely retailiate with my feedback), or just forget it and give no feedback at all. Suggestions?
I had a gas attack last month and purchased a Zorki 4 on e-bay. The seller had a 100% rating (back to 04) and he listed the camera as e++ condition, all mechanics good, speeds accurate, focusing smooth, etc. The photos looked good, only a few paint chips on the black. When I received the camera I found: 1) the lens focus was very stiff, almost immovable, 2) the shutter speed selector jammed, 3) slow speeds work, but stick every so often, 4) heavy, poor quality repaint on the body. I contacted the seller about the lens issue, he apologized and provided repair instructions. I fixed everything (except the slow speeds), stripped off the repaint (nice patina below it) and I now have a respectible Zorki. So what you you all do in this situation? I figure I can contact him again and complain, or give him a poor feedback (after which he will likely retailiate with my feedback), or just forget it and give no feedback at all. Suggestions?
Last edited:
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I'd decide according to my satisfaction level. If you're satisfied with the camera, give him a positive, but word it unenthusiastically. At least the guy did give you something. Had he offered to exchange the camera or return your money he'd deserve a thumbs up, but he did what he thought best. Give him some credit.
I got once a Canonet in less than perfect condition from a seller. He claimed it had been damaged in the shipping (I wonder how, if it came very safely packed). I sent the thing back and it took him forever to reimburse me. I gave him a positive star, but in the text I wrote "Decent seller but he charges a bit much for shipping."
I must admit I waited for him to post some bland, perfunctory feedback for me first.
Again, you could write something like "Good seller, camera not great but he cooperated with repair tips."
Take care!
I got once a Canonet in less than perfect condition from a seller. He claimed it had been damaged in the shipping (I wonder how, if it came very safely packed). I sent the thing back and it took him forever to reimburse me. I gave him a positive star, but in the text I wrote "Decent seller but he charges a bit much for shipping."
I must admit I waited for him to post some bland, perfunctory feedback for me first.
Again, you could write something like "Good seller, camera not great but he cooperated with repair tips."
Take care!
BillBingham2
Registered User
Rey,
Has it provided you feedback yet? Saddly feedback is somewhat of a weapon these days with people trying to keep 100% positive numbers. I think the system somewhat broke as the volume of transactions increased and evilBay stepped back and did not provide intelligent moderation (read remove of inaccurate feed back).
I would reach out to him and say that you were going to give him a neutral feedback stating that it was not as described but he did help out somewhat after the sale.
You are now happy with the unit, but you’ve lost a bit of time from your life. Would you have paid the same amount if he was 100% dead on with the actual description? If so then perhaps a positive mark is in order.
I would not go negative as he was helpful. While I know it is useless, perhaps writing evilBay about how suggest approaching it. I do not like buyers who do not provide feedback as soon as they receive full payment.
Perhaps the answer to give positive feedback but write the description was inaccurate and the seller is slow on your feedback. That might be safe enough.
B2 (;->
Has it provided you feedback yet? Saddly feedback is somewhat of a weapon these days with people trying to keep 100% positive numbers. I think the system somewhat broke as the volume of transactions increased and evilBay stepped back and did not provide intelligent moderation (read remove of inaccurate feed back).
I would reach out to him and say that you were going to give him a neutral feedback stating that it was not as described but he did help out somewhat after the sale.
You are now happy with the unit, but you’ve lost a bit of time from your life. Would you have paid the same amount if he was 100% dead on with the actual description? If so then perhaps a positive mark is in order.
I would not go negative as he was helpful. While I know it is useless, perhaps writing evilBay about how suggest approaching it. I do not like buyers who do not provide feedback as soon as they receive full payment.
Perhaps the answer to give positive feedback but write the description was inaccurate and the seller is slow on your feedback. That might be safe enough.
B2 (;->
michaelging
Established
Ebay works well only when people who are not honest are called on it. You say the person had 100% positive feedback and that is why you made the decision to buy from that person. Well I suggest that if someone before you had used the site the way it was set up , then their feedback might have saved you the problems you are having. I have only had one person not deliver on a ebay camera they sold me , I gave them a negative and they gave me one back for no reason. You have to take that chance that they will, in order to give any credence to the systems credibility . Maybe a Neg will make the seller realize that he can't get away with lying about the condition, and if he get enough negs , then he will loose the ability to sell on ebay. Its the right thing to do ,whatever the consequences.
Last edited:
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Have you thought about asking for a partial refund? that's what I would do. You fix the camera yourself, that is more that justifiable for the seller to "reimburse" you for their oversight.
I usually leave the amount to the seller. And that reflects how honest they are and then I leave my feedback accordingly.
So far, I've never had a seller who refuses to my asking for a partial refund. Now, I'm not saying that I've never dealt with sellers who has rocks as their brain. But those who at least willing to communicate are open to it.
And likewise, I gave partial refunds to people who are not satisfied with what they bought from me through ebay. It goes both ways.
I usually leave the amount to the seller. And that reflects how honest they are and then I leave my feedback accordingly.
So far, I've never had a seller who refuses to my asking for a partial refund. Now, I'm not saying that I've never dealt with sellers who has rocks as their brain. But those who at least willing to communicate are open to it.
And likewise, I gave partial refunds to people who are not satisfied with what they bought from me through ebay. It goes both ways.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
One thing: when I bid on the bay, I too look at the feedback left. One bad feedback doesn't deter me. Anyone can have a bad day or deal with a bad customer.
Now, if there is a string of negative feedback, however scattered... I proceed with caution.
In any event, I'd contact him again and let him know what you would like to do (get at least a partial refund). Let's see how he reacts and take it from there. Again, if he's not helpful and you decide to give him negative feedback, getting a negative in return, it'll be just one comment. And one comment is really not significant.
Take care!
Now, if there is a string of negative feedback, however scattered... I proceed with caution.
In any event, I'd contact him again and let him know what you would like to do (get at least a partial refund). Let's see how he reacts and take it from there. Again, if he's not helpful and you decide to give him negative feedback, getting a negative in return, it'll be just one comment. And one comment is really not significant.
Take care!
kuzano
Veteran
Neutral feedback.... consider that.
Neutral feedback.... consider that.
I like shadowfoxes idea of a partial refund, although my personal rule is no refunds.. if you don't like it, I buy it back. I did a partial refund to a buyer in Singapore, but it left me feeling that I might have been played because I didn't confirm the fault for myself.
If you don't feel strongly enough about it to do a negative feedback, ie. the camera suits you now and his communication was OK, then you can leave a neutral feedback that the camera was not as nice as described. A neutral feedback won't reduce his percent of feedback, but it might alert others that his descriptions are overly optimistic. You may want to send him an email that this is your plan, but not as a negotiation. That's one of the problems with eBay in terms of the feedback squabble now. Let him make an offer to fix the transaction if he wants to up the feedback from neutral.
I have one neutral feedback and it vexes me, but it doesn't detract from my feedback score of 100%. I bought a light meter which turned out defective, and the buyer offered a partial refund, which I accepted. Then he turns around and gives me a neutral feedback.
Oh well.
Neutral feedback.... consider that.
I like shadowfoxes idea of a partial refund, although my personal rule is no refunds.. if you don't like it, I buy it back. I did a partial refund to a buyer in Singapore, but it left me feeling that I might have been played because I didn't confirm the fault for myself.
If you don't feel strongly enough about it to do a negative feedback, ie. the camera suits you now and his communication was OK, then you can leave a neutral feedback that the camera was not as nice as described. A neutral feedback won't reduce his percent of feedback, but it might alert others that his descriptions are overly optimistic. You may want to send him an email that this is your plan, but not as a negotiation. That's one of the problems with eBay in terms of the feedback squabble now. Let him make an offer to fix the transaction if he wants to up the feedback from neutral.
I have one neutral feedback and it vexes me, but it doesn't detract from my feedback score of 100%. I bought a light meter which turned out defective, and the buyer offered a partial refund, which I accepted. Then he turns around and gives me a neutral feedback.
Oh well.
oscroft
Veteran
If you accepted the apology and repair instructions and decided to keep it and repair it yourself, I don't think it's fair to then leave negative feedback. If you had asked for a refund but he refused, then that would have been different.
Rey
Well-known
Thanks for your response. This has been bothering me. He acknowledged that the lense problem was his fault, which means that he knew the lens was sticky when he described it on e-bay as focusing smoothly, which leads me to believed that he knew about the other problems as well. Most good FSU sellers on e-bay mention repaint. In any event I have e-mailed him and I have let him know that the camera is not in Ex++ condition and that, had I known what the condition was, I would not have paid the price I did.That puts the ball in his court, so we will see what he does next. I'll keep you all posted.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
The seller would be hard pressed to provide you substantiated negative feedback if you paid for the item as per the seller's instructions. In any case, two wrongs do not make a right. You should not let the seller hold you hostage (based on what he might do) from doing the right thing - that is to provide feedback the seller has earned.
Rey
Well-known
Working on the camera was his idea. Returning a camera to the FSU is a timely and costly option. He did not offer to return any shipping charges, he did not offer a refund. Basically the original and return shipping would cost more than I paid for the camera, and I would not have the camera.
Paul T.
Veteran
I BELIEVE that eBay feedback rules have changed, and that sellers can't post retaliatory feedback - they can only neg you for payment issues. Google this and I'm sure you'll find something, it might be that this is onlyin the UK.
I would ask for a partial refund, just to show willing... then neg him if he doesn't. In any case, with eBay, I always vote for negging a seller and not worrying about retaliatory feedback, as we have a duty to others who might buy from that seller.
I would ask for a partial refund, just to show willing... then neg him if he doesn't. In any case, with eBay, I always vote for negging a seller and not worrying about retaliatory feedback, as we have a duty to others who might buy from that seller.
M. Valdemar
Well-known
The new feedback rules don't start until May, in UK, USA or elsewhere.
How much did you pay for the camera? If it's some small amount, I would just leave it alone.
The problems are no big deal, even though it's annoying. Plus, as NWM said, you worked on the camera rather than asking for a refund.
How much did you pay for the camera? If it's some small amount, I would just leave it alone.
The problems are no big deal, even though it's annoying. Plus, as NWM said, you worked on the camera rather than asking for a refund.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi folks,
Valdemar said some time ago that changing eBay seller identities is easy and actually done. So here we may be facing a hard bone.
One think I can contribute regarding how to purchase, the stage before this thread is dealing with.
And my advice is the following: after you have been seduced by an ad, put the ad besides and start asking technical questions to the seller. You will open a pandora box.
The aim of this contact is not only to know the seller's allegations, but to "smell" him. Is he knowledgeable at all about technical issues ? Does he answer concrete answers about the specific camera, or general answers about himself as a dealer ? Etc.
Of course, even this will not be a hundred percent proof, but will show usefull. Try to touch, so to speak, the person behind the ad.
Cheers,
Ruben
Valdemar said some time ago that changing eBay seller identities is easy and actually done. So here we may be facing a hard bone.
One think I can contribute regarding how to purchase, the stage before this thread is dealing with.
And my advice is the following: after you have been seduced by an ad, put the ad besides and start asking technical questions to the seller. You will open a pandora box.
The aim of this contact is not only to know the seller's allegations, but to "smell" him. Is he knowledgeable at all about technical issues ? Does he answer concrete answers about the specific camera, or general answers about himself as a dealer ? Etc.
Of course, even this will not be a hundred percent proof, but will show usefull. Try to touch, so to speak, the person behind the ad.
Cheers,
Ruben
myoptic3
Well-known
Wait until the new feedback rules take effect in May (I think), then leave a negative stating the nature of the problem. Under the new feedback rules, a seller cannot leave a buyer a negative. eBay's whole scheme has gone to the dogs in my opinion, which prompted me to finally close my account w/ them. They are only concerned about making money, and their ethics are as terrible as some of the bad sellers on their site. I buy and sell on this forum and others that list ads from camera enthusiasts, not from eBay businesses. I found out first hand that if someone leaves a feedback that is totally false and 100% retaliatory, eBay will do nothing. I also found out that if you get a broken item, or item that was not as pictured on the auction, you will have to depend on a paypal claim. eBay will do nothing for you, and will do nothing to the seller as well. An organization like this does not need me as a member.
Rey
Well-known
Ruben,
Your advice is good. I will use it in the future. I did get a message back from the seller. Basically angry, he said that all cameras need work, that everyone repaints, that he doesn't list cosmetic condition because he has photos, etc. He says that if I am not satisfied, I can send it back and he will refund my money, but he did not mention shipping costs, so I'm just going to leave it alone at this point.
Your advice is good. I will use it in the future. I did get a message back from the seller. Basically angry, he said that all cameras need work, that everyone repaints, that he doesn't list cosmetic condition because he has photos, etc. He says that if I am not satisfied, I can send it back and he will refund my money, but he did not mention shipping costs, so I'm just going to leave it alone at this point.
Rey
Well-known
Yeah, I once got a bad Bronica. Seller said to return it for a refund, but then kept the camera and the money. i had to sik paypal and American Express on him.
Last edited:
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
Rey, a few questions to ask:
1. Did he send you what you paid for?
2. Are you happy with what he sent you?
3. Are you happy with what you have now?
These questions can only be answered by you.
1. Did he send you what you paid for?
2. Are you happy with what he sent you?
3. Are you happy with what you have now?
These questions can only be answered by you.
Rey
Well-known
In answer to these questions:
1. Did he send you what you paid for?
No, I paid for excellent ++ and received a camera in "good" condition, or on a numeric scale, I paid for a 9 and received a 7 (out of 10)
2. Are you happy with what he sent you?
Again, No, for the reasons stated above and the amount of work it required to get it up to speed
3. Are you happy with what you have now?
Well, ironically, yes. It's amazing what some elbow grease can accomplish. By the way, the camera now has a gun metal body thanks to the patina on the metal under the paint. It's kind of cool.
1. Did he send you what you paid for?
No, I paid for excellent ++ and received a camera in "good" condition, or on a numeric scale, I paid for a 9 and received a 7 (out of 10)
2. Are you happy with what he sent you?
Again, No, for the reasons stated above and the amount of work it required to get it up to speed
3. Are you happy with what you have now?
Well, ironically, yes. It's amazing what some elbow grease can accomplish. By the way, the camera now has a gun metal body thanks to the patina on the metal under the paint. It's kind of cool.
Last edited: