v0sh
Established
Tri-X pushed to 1600 in D-76 stock
Indoor rock concert film/devolper ideas?
- Thread starter Ccoppola82
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Vince Lupo
Whatever
This discussion came up a few years ago -- more food for thought: https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135806
BlackXList
Well-known
The spread of LED lights has made it a very different task these days in terms of light fall off, colour temperature, and even the refresh rate of the lights, none of which was an issue back in Barrie's Day
It's also added to the baffling number of Sound/Light techs who think bathing the stage in red is a good idea too, which can absolutely ruin your night as a shooter.
Good luck to Ccoppola82, hope it goes well, and most importantly I hope you have fun with it.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Yes you’re probably right - was probably much more straightforward back then. Plus, looking at many of his concert photos, he had stage and behind the band access, so that must have helped as well.
znapper
Well-known
Ok I understand the OP's post a little better now.
If I was going to shoot with film during such an event, I would bring the most light-sensitive film on the marked, Ilford Delta 3200 and shoot it at 3200.
(then find a developer that gives that speed)
It's better than try pushing a 400 film all the way up there, at least in my book.
You could bring a few rolls off-course, if the scene enables you to shoot at ISO 1000.
I would bring 1-2 fast primes (1.4-1.8) and stop them down to around f2.0-f2.8 for better dof and sharpness.
I think you need to get your shutter up to around 1/125s or so to get reasonable frozen action, if that's what you are after.
I see in my own limited archive that the last stuff I did (with digital), was shot at 1/100-1/160s @ ISO 3200 between f2.8-f3.2, but those were pretty well-lit stages.
If I was going to shoot with film during such an event, I would bring the most light-sensitive film on the marked, Ilford Delta 3200 and shoot it at 3200.
(then find a developer that gives that speed)
It's better than try pushing a 400 film all the way up there, at least in my book.
You could bring a few rolls off-course, if the scene enables you to shoot at ISO 1000.
I would bring 1-2 fast primes (1.4-1.8) and stop them down to around f2.0-f2.8 for better dof and sharpness.
I think you need to get your shutter up to around 1/125s or so to get reasonable frozen action, if that's what you are after.
I see in my own limited archive that the last stuff I did (with digital), was shot at 1/100-1/160s @ ISO 3200 between f2.8-f3.2, but those were pretty well-lit stages.
Ccoppola82
Well-known
I had the chance to shoot in a similar situation and tested a some film/developer combos and techniques. So far I tried
DDX 1+4
This gave super contrasty images and blocked my highlights a bit much for my liking. I prefer starting with a bit of a flatter negative. Tough ask in stage lighting.
Tri X 1600
HP5 1600
Barry Thornton 2 bath 6/6 min
This was my next expirement to try and contain some of the contrast. The delta 3200 seemed to underperform here quite a bit. I will scan and post a few for comparison sake and to keep a record for people that might have this same question someday.
Tri X 1600
Delta 3200 @3200
FX2 Semi Stand.
90 min. 1 inversion every 30 min. I did this because the DDX tended to block up highlights and have really harsh contrast. Rodinal loses shadow speed, and I know that FX2 maintains film speed fairly well.
Tri X 1600
HP5 1600
Group 1- DDX 1+4, Tri X 1600
[/url]49-17-Edit.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]48-12-Edit.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]49-36-Edit.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]49-8.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
Group 2- DDX 1+4 HP5 @1600
[/url]48-24.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]48-14.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]48-4.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
Group 3 - Thornton 2 Bath HP5 @1600
[/url]51-4.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]51-14.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
Group 4- FX2 Semi Stand 90 Min. Tri X @1600
[/url]52-17.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]52-5.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
Group 5- FX2 Semi Stand 90 Min. HP5 @1600
[/url]50-28.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]50-18.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]50-14-Edit.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]50-31-Edit.jpg by Chris Coppola, on Flickr[/IMG]
My own conclusions are that I prefer the FX2 combo with HP5 the best out of the bunch. I seem to have more tonality than I anticipated along with very reasonable grain considering. The guy that owns the blog I'm shooting for said "embrace the grain if it means a faster shutter"
couple things I noted, I thought I could get away with 1/60....I can't. Haha
metering will be set to the Focus Point Spot.
I also think that Delta 3200 will work well in DDX as that is a low contrast film to begin with. I have a roll of that I will be developing tomorrow. I ordered DDX, will make a few liters of FX2, ordered 10 Rolls of Delta 3200, and 20 Rolls of HP5. I should be covered.
I genuinely appreciate everyones commentary on this. I'll post more as they come.
DDX 1+4
This gave super contrasty images and blocked my highlights a bit much for my liking. I prefer starting with a bit of a flatter negative. Tough ask in stage lighting.
Tri X 1600
HP5 1600
Barry Thornton 2 bath 6/6 min
This was my next expirement to try and contain some of the contrast. The delta 3200 seemed to underperform here quite a bit. I will scan and post a few for comparison sake and to keep a record for people that might have this same question someday.
Tri X 1600
Delta 3200 @3200
FX2 Semi Stand.
90 min. 1 inversion every 30 min. I did this because the DDX tended to block up highlights and have really harsh contrast. Rodinal loses shadow speed, and I know that FX2 maintains film speed fairly well.
Tri X 1600
HP5 1600
Group 1- DDX 1+4, Tri X 1600
Group 2- DDX 1+4 HP5 @1600
Group 3 - Thornton 2 Bath HP5 @1600
Group 4- FX2 Semi Stand 90 Min. Tri X @1600
Group 5- FX2 Semi Stand 90 Min. HP5 @1600
My own conclusions are that I prefer the FX2 combo with HP5 the best out of the bunch. I seem to have more tonality than I anticipated along with very reasonable grain considering. The guy that owns the blog I'm shooting for said "embrace the grain if it means a faster shutter"
couple things I noted, I thought I could get away with 1/60....I can't. Haha
metering will be set to the Focus Point Spot.
I also think that Delta 3200 will work well in DDX as that is a low contrast film to begin with. I have a roll of that I will be developing tomorrow. I ordered DDX, will make a few liters of FX2, ordered 10 Rolls of Delta 3200, and 20 Rolls of HP5. I should be covered.
I genuinely appreciate everyones commentary on this. I'll post more as they come.
BlackXList
Well-known
Just as an aside on LED lights, the same way that monitor refresh rates affect how a monitor looks in a digital photograph, there are some circumstances where you can end up with light banding across the shot because your shutter speed, and the LED light are in phase.
ZNapper gives good advice on shutter speed, keep it above 125th pretty much at all times. That's actually helpful though because it cuts down your other options in the moment.
Oh and apologies if this is stating the obvious, but for concert shooting, it's always worth keeping in mind that your lightmeter is dumb, and is looking for middle grey.
Test shots have come out really well, I look forward to seeing more.
If you have the chance to have this level of input try to steer the band away from drowning the stage in red light, because that will destroy any contrast in the skintones, and make life much harder.
Ccoppola82
Well-known
It's a pretty major band. Chevelle. I have zero input unfortunately. It should be fun though.
GoodOldNorm
Member
You can get away with a little fill flash without killing the atmosphere, a second camera set-up for flash can be a bonus.
MrFujicaman
Well-known
My advice isn't about developing..
If you're near the big speakers, wear hearing protection! I can trace some of my hearing loss to shooting at the dances at college and being less the 8 feet from the speakers, I'd go back to my room and it'd be a day or two before I could hear well again.
If you're near the big speakers, wear hearing protection! I can trace some of my hearing loss to shooting at the dances at college and being less the 8 feet from the speakers, I'd go back to my room and it'd be a day or two before I could hear well again.
BlackXList
Well-known
The "First 3 songs, no flash" rule is pretty hard and fast at decent sized venues, so I wouldn't even consider the flash route.
Ccoppola82
Well-known
Yup it’s 3 songs no flash and very strict about that. I picked up some ear plugs for the show also. Got my shipment of film in today also!
Tim Gray
Well-known
As I said earlier, I'd go with Ilford Delta 3200 if the lighting is bad, and Tri-X in Diafine if it's just okay. Tri-X in Diafine will give you EI 1250 and it's compensating, saving you from blown out highlights, which is helpful in contrasty situations that you can get in concert settings.
I don't really shoot any shows now, and only shot a few some years ago, but even then, I was the ONLY person shooting film that'd I'd see.
Tri-X in Diafine at 1250:
Art Brut 01
Disco Ball
Les Savy Fav
Quintron and the Drum Buddy
T-Max 3200 in XTOL 1:1:
The Hold Steady 07
The lighting at that last show was good enough that I didn't need 3200. I changed films at some point to Tri-X @ 400 in XTOL 1:1 and got a lot more shadow detail (duh!). Not that the high contrast photos aren't interesting...
The Hold Steady 23
I don't really shoot any shows now, and only shot a few some years ago, but even then, I was the ONLY person shooting film that'd I'd see.
Tri-X in Diafine at 1250:
Art Brut 01
Disco Ball
Les Savy Fav
Quintron and the Drum Buddy
T-Max 3200 in XTOL 1:1:
The Hold Steady 07
The lighting at that last show was good enough that I didn't need 3200. I changed films at some point to Tri-X @ 400 in XTOL 1:1 and got a lot more shadow detail (duh!). Not that the high contrast photos aren't interesting...
The Hold Steady 23