Inherited a M3 - is there a danger in not doing a CLA?

oscroft said:
If you mean a Voigtlander Vitessa, then I think the long thing is a film advance plunger (which is meant to be quick, hence the name), rather than a shutter release, isn't it?
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Yeah, that's the one. I figured as such, that it advanced the film, cocked the shutter, and fired the shutter too, if you pressed it all the way. Kind of like a double action revolver.
 
I figured as such, that it advanced the film, cocked the shutter, and fired the shutter too, if you pressed it all the way. Kind of like a double action revolver.
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Oh, I didn't know it had that "double action" - that's interesting to know, and rather cool (I've fancied getting one for ages ;) ).
 
oscroft said:
Oh, I didn't know it had that "double action" - that's interesting to know, and rather cool (I've fancied getting one for ages ;) ).
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Oops, I was mistaken. I just read up on the camera. There is a separate button to release the shutter. The long one just cocks it and advances the film. Steven Gandy gave the camera a glowing write-up though. Said it has a fit and finish on a par with an M3.

http://www.cameraquest.com/voitvitl.htm
 
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Congratulations on your wonderful inheritance -- a nice way to remember him every time you use it.

Put me down as voting for a CLA only if it's apparent the camera needs it. If it's working at all speeds, the shutters are intact, the rangefinder is aligned and bright, the viewfinder is clear, the film advance is working, and there are no light leaks, then you should be fine. And the camera will be helped by being used again on a regular basis.

Oh, and if you aren't going to use the MR4 meter, drop me a line!
 
I don't ever have my stuff cleaned. It works fine. My advice to hypersensitive types is to obey three rules: Don't put dirt on your camera. Don't put it in water. Don't drop it.

If those three conditions are met, it'll probably work just fine.

I am using my M2 and there's a sticker inside the baseplate mentioning it was gone through on September 22nd, 1971. I bought the thing with unknown history at an antique store.

So far, so good. I'll send it out once it actually breaks. The cost is going to be about the same either way. No need in preemptively wasting money, since the moment I spend 300 dollars fruitlessly, typically Mother Nature F's me over and I have some 300 dollar expense I HAVE to take care of a couple days later.

There's obviously nothing wrong with getting cameras CLAed. However, I'm in the camp of 'good intentions lead to a kick in the junk' when I have tried to get things fixed, which just caused more problems than I originally had.

With cars? I usually fix things before they break. Mostly since a camera won't run me off of a cliff or into a bridge if I ignore it.
 
Interesting discussion. After using a bunch of old cameras my own attitude is pretty much matches Luke's. If it works, don't worry. A CLA is only needed if there are problems that interfere with the functionality of the camera. Fortunately Leicas were made well and age gracefully; my old M3 (also inherited after long disuse) is still working just fine.

Now lenses, they may be another story. My Elmar and Summaron both have enough haze to cause flare under some conditions. I do an OK job at disassembling and most RF lenses but I've got cold feet where Leica optics are concerned. They'll probably get sent out for a good professional cleaning one of these days.
 
The idea of a CLA after 30 years of relative inactivity is good. Grease hardens and gums up and shutter curtains can get brittle and there is usually some "degassing" from lubricants on the prisms in the finder. That said, some "dry firing" and advancing without film usually sets up the speeds well enough for a couple of testrolls.
I usually get my cameras "overhauled" when small bits fall out of them or they seize up. It is rare that it happens with Leica's (or Nikon Rf's), but if you ever had a chance to use a well tuned M2/M3 you will find out why these cameras attract such fierce devotion!
Looking at the pix of your kit - it looks like an early 60's M3 and with the L seal intact that means that it has been "unserviced" for close to 50 years. Most of us dont go that long without check-ups!!!
Before you send it off, shoot a couple of rolls of film and check speeds, framing, focus and if you find something odd, tell that to whoever is going to service it. Most likely you find the slow speeds a bit off, 1 sec closer to 2 etc. You can also have a bit of "drag" on the shutter where the second shutter curtain takes its own time to close.
You also have one of the great lenses that Leica made, a DR Summicron 50f2 - It is still one of my favourites today - even compared to all the new and splendid glass available. Sharp and one of the nicest tonal renditions of any lens. As it was a bit of a speciality lens when it came out, they tended to be put together with more care than the "regular" 50's. The little ball that provides the "interlock" for the close range occasionally gums up and can make it difficult to mount and remove the "goggles" - but that usually can be cured by doing it several times, just to get the grease loose again.
It is always a pity that inheriting something usually means that someone has to die, but as stated before, use the camera in memory of your grandfather and he had very good taste in equipment too.
 
Tom A said:
...Looking at the pix of your kit - it looks like an early 60's M3 and with the L seal intact that means that it has been "unserviced" for close to 50 years. Most of us dont go that long without check-ups!!!
Before you send it off, shoot a couple of rolls of film and check speeds, framing, focus and if you find something odd, tell that to whoever is going to service it. Most likely you find the slow speeds a bit off, 1 sec closer to 2 etc. You can also have a bit of "drag" on the shutter where the second shutter curtain takes its own time to close.
You also have one of the great lenses that Leica made, a DR Summicron 50f2 - It is still one of my favourites today - even compared to all the new and splendid glass available. Sharp and one of the nicest tonal renditions of any lens. As it was a bit of a speciality lens when it came out, they tended to be put together with more care than the "regular" 50's. The little ball that provides the "interlock" for the close range occasionally gums up and can make it difficult to mount and remove the "goggles" - but that usually can be cured by doing it several times, just to get the grease loose again.
It is always a pity that inheriting something usually means that someone has to die, but as stated before, use the camera in memory of your grandfather and he had very good taste in equipment too.
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My grandfather passed away almost 20 years ago :mad:, but it's only now that my Mom's figured I'm mature enough to have it and not lose it. ;)
According to the production guides on cameraquest it's from '62 and the lens is from 1957. However, the camera was bought in Frankfurt in the late 60s. The M4 was already out at the time it was bought, but it was all supposedly new at the time of purchase... unless the folks at Foto Koch were big liars (the tag of the shop was still in the camera bag).

What exactly is the "dual range" part? Is it close focusing for macro photography?
 
Sherry aqnd DAG will certainly do a fine job, but for routine work, Youxin Ye will do a fully competent CLA on your M3 for under $100 (provided that the shutter curtains are OK - but if they aren't you'll need have ehese seen to) and have it back to you probably within a week.

Do the CLA and be able to enjoy the camera. There is nothing worse than returning from someplace special and discovering that your really neat camera had arthritis.

Don't ask me how I know this.
 
Very nice camera. If I were in your shoes, I'd give Sherry Krauter a call. She is a legend in the world of Leica repair, loves to talk on the phone and has plenty of work so she's not going to recommend any unnecessary work. She is also a LOT faster than DAG if you do send it to her.
 
chris00nj said:
What exactly is the "dual range" part? Is it close focusing for macro photography?
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The dual range 50mm was one way for Leica to alleviate the complaint that "Rf's are no good for close up". There is a set of "goggles" or oculars that slide on the flat surface with the small ball protruding on the lens. You can then pull the lens and slip it into a closer range. Not really macro - but closer than the 1 meter that is the limit otherwise. It is not as convinient as a true macro lens - but it works after a fashion.
The lens works perfectly well for "normal" photography and often the "goggles" are lost. They are tricky to find if you want them, so if you dont have them, just go ahead and use the combination. One day a set of "eyes" will pop up.
 
Always a pleasure to read Tom's contributions. Although I am still very much a newbie, I sought out a Summicron DR as my first Leica lens, after many positive stories. I had to drive 300km to pick it up, bit it was complete with caps, goggles and Leitz yellow filter. Quite a bargain for 250 euros. There is a little play on the aperture ring and it has obviously been used but well cared for. The glass is flawless and what amazes me most is that this 45 year old lens is simply the best I have ever used!
 
Last year I obtained a 1957 M3 with L- seal. Everything seemed to work, but when I held it up to the light with the back open I saw that there was capping at slow speeds (the image circle was not a circle!) Test shots confirmed the problem.

I sent it to Youxin Ye and got it back very quickly and it was less than $100. I noticed that it did smell quite strongly of oil, and that there was some on the pressure plate when I loaded film. I really didn't think much of it, but I have since seen a number of comments about "dripping oil" after his CLAs.

A year later I still see some oil on the pressure plate when I load it, BUT the camera works perfectly. I don't know if a problem may eventually develop due to over oiling/flushing, but it just may be something to consider, particularly for an hierloom. And again, he was very easy to work with, fast, and the function of the camera is good.

Good luck with it!
 
Some tend to blow up when fired without a CLA. I know a photographer who had his face blown off by one that wasn't CLA'd before he used it. Otherwise, not much to worry about. :D

/T
 
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This is a shot with a 1957 50DR Summicron. Just a straightforward on, Neopan 400, M2 and DR 50f2. Dont think that even the newest 50's from Zeiss/Leica/Cosina would significantly improve upon it!
 
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As others have said a CLA is a good idea. Otherwise you may have a failure of the camera in the middle of a roll or important shooting event.
 
I finally got a CLA for my M3. I sent it to Sherry Krauter. She did the CLA and ended up replacing the winding head gear and clutch.

Among other things done internally, the viewfinder is brighter, the shutter is quieter, the framelines are white again, and the missing piece of vulcanite was patched. It looks new!

I recommend the CLA for a camera that you plan on both keeping and using. I also heartily recommend Sherry. She had great communication and she exceeded the quoted 3 week turnaround time.
 
Use the MR4 meter. It's a great addition to the camera. it's coupled to the shutter speed dial and provides a nice way to change speeds plus a good exposure table. As for the batteries, go find a pack of hearing aid batteries at the drugstore that are the same size or close. Then "shim" the battery in the compartment with some tape. The hearing aid batteries are a very stable 1.4v and if you use negative film, this is well within the latitude of the film. I shot for 6 months in Iraq with this setup and used maybe 2 batteries. The only time I didn't get spot on exposures was because I made some mistake.
That's quite a kit you have there. One of the best. You can exercise the shutter through its speeds a few times, or a few hundred to try to loosen up any old sticky lube inside. You'll know after your roll of slide film comes back.

Enjoy it! Use it until it brasses, like it should be used.
Phil Forrest
 
I got an M3 a year ago that had been sitting for an unknown time period. Same story - it was an older relative's camera that had been sitting for years, they just wanted to sell it and I got it for a good price. I shot it for almost a year before deciding to do a CLA (from Gus Lazarri at TLC - thegreatgus@gmail.com - who did a fantastic job). The top speed of 1/1000 was off, it had an intermittent light leak that was proving to be bothersome and the frame spacing was sometimes a little off. Frankly, it could all have been lived with quite easily if I didn't really want to shoot at large apertures and didn't mind a few blown frames now an again. However, I decided that I really liked the camera and would keep it so a CLA seemed like a good investment. After the CLA it's like a new camera, not only did Gus fix the known issues he completely cleaned and regreased everything. The viewfinder is magnificent and it's the smoothest machine I've ever had the pleasure to own (close second was my '73 BMW 2002 tii, but I digress ...).

Bottom line, spend some time shooting it, and note the shutter speeds and focus, light leaks, winding and frame spacing and the rest. If it works fine, don't CLA unless you can afford it and really want to.

Chris
 
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