Innovative cameras unrecognised ?

[flavio81]

Can we have a new thread about innovative but not so very well known cameras, please? After the first 20 posts or so this one became something different...

I was hoping to find interesting stuff about cameras instead of expert-wars...

My first thought was the Epson R-D1. That was somehow innovative, but not really unrecognized, at least not in this forum. With the aggression-level in this thread by now, I think, I better not try to add anything, otherwise I may get ripped apart by the experts for being a fanboy (which in fact is not an insult from my POV).

Regards

I will add one to the topic then:

Contax N Digital. First 35mm full frame digital SLR. It was a failure due to image quality problems and very bad usability, but still it was the first.

also, the same year:

Canon EOS-1Ds: First usable, practical 35mm full frame digital SLR. Professional, too. I recall when this camera was launched i could not believe it; i thought "finally one can use the 35mm lenses as they were intended to!"

 

[tunalegs]

Oh dear, «despite [my] inclinations», my goodness?! What are you insinuating?

Well you did actually just write you were inclined...

And I'm inclined to suppose: the East Germans weren't able to prosecute very probable patent/intellectual property infringements, since West German Courts didn't care about intellectual property of Commies…

I suspect trolling when one pretends they didn't write what they just wrote.

As for Praktica, you can read a little bit about the history of Kamera Werkstatten here.

"...the summer of 1945 Charles A. Noble and his son, John were arrested on unsupported spy charges by the Soviet occupying forces, and the factory nationalised...Both were imprisoned in labour camps and kept until Charles Noble was released in 1952, and his son in 1955...After the reunification of Germany in 1990, the Noble family was able to reclaim their home and factory in Dresden, and to continue the enterprise."

 

[tunalegs]

I'll throw another one out there just to put things back on topic: The Ansco Clipper. Its innovation was a collapsible lens mount that didn't need a felt light trap. The patent for which was referenced by many much later cameras, even into the electronic era.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

How about the Exakta being the first one made for left handed people? Apart from all the other ideas it had like lever wind in the 30's, bayonet fitting and a little red dot for correct alignment...

Regards, David

 

[tunalegs]

Hi,

How about the Exakta being the first one made for left handed people? Apart from all the other ideas it had like lever wind in the 30's, bayonet fitting and a little red dot for correct alignment...

Regards, David

True, but I think most people recognize the Exakta was innovative. How about the Exa then for introducing a "tiered" system of cameras? Sure, many companies produced different lines for different prices, but they weren't part of a system like the Exakta and Exa were.

 

[mpaniagua]

Cant believe its already the 3rd page and no one have mentioned Leica M5 for being the first rangefinder with integrated TTL metering (could be wrong. Please correct me if I'm).

And it certainly was unrecognised and unloved🙂

 

[Pioneer]

Can we have a new thread about innovative but not so very well known cameras, please? After the first 20 posts or so this one became something different...

I was hoping to find interesting stuff about cameras instead of expert-wars...

My first thought was the Epson R-D1. That was somehow innovative, but not really unrecognized, at least not in this forum. With the aggression-level in this thread by now, I think, I better not try to add anything, otherwise I may get ripped apart by the experts for being a fanboy (which in fact is not an insult from my POV).

Regards

I sincerely apologize for hijacking the thread for purposes not part of the original thought. I do assure you, no aggression was intended on my part, neither Roger's I am sure.

For myself, I'll try to keep myself out of the beer locker and under better control. 🙂

Please carry on.

 

[Jack Conrad]

I like a bit of controversy in a thread. Sort of like dissonance in a jazz lick,
it's a coffee buzz for a forum thread. Though too much might cause a headache.

 

[dee]

This seems to be getting a bit heated ,sorry. I asked
dee

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

I suspect trolling when one pretends they didn't write what they just wrote.

Apparently, you love to regard a lot of things and persons with suspicion, and to accuse.

You have to realize that "experts" (i.e. anyone who knows anything about anything) are currently at a discount: cf. Brexit, Donald Trump. All opinions are, in the eyes of the ignorant, equally valid, despite the way that most people who can read and write recognize the value of study and experience in, for example, a legal "opinion" or a medical "opinion".

You're right, dear Roger.

Regarding the question above: If U.S. Americans (and I guess, tuna is US American), who're apparently well aware that their own country was importing huge masses of products from the «criminal» country in question, do accuse these foreign authorities of «stealing», then at the very same time they are accusing their own importers—and also their own authorities who have been allowing these imports—of «receiving and disposing of stolen goods» — in other words, their «honest» opinion appears to be that their own US American business guys, and their own US American officials, are despicable criminals, too!

Of course, from a European point of view, this borders on conspiracy theories — but one knows that these theories aren't uncommon in the U.S.A. («the gubmint, particularly the federal gubmint, are always traitors …»)

After all, I'd say: «Well, there is much evidence that Faux News is somehow educative, eventually.»

😉

 

[Pioneer]

You do seem a touch grumpy this morning radi(c)al cam.

Maybe going out and creating a few photos will make you feel better.

In the end someone will put all this in the history books.

I'll give you 3 guesses as to who that will be. 😀

Hope you are enjoying your weekend.

 

[Tom A]

There are some rather interesting cameras from the past. Some unrecognized and some that has become collectibles.
My list is somewhat eclectic.
Purma Special 127 film and the shutter speed id decided according how you hold the camera!
Ilford Witness - and attempt to "out Leica" design wise. Beatiful camera but became way to expensive and is now relegated to collector cabinets.
The Periflex - good idea, but needed more development, that periscope finder was dim!
Voigtlander Prominent, particularly with the 50mm f1.5 lens. Heavy and a bit of an ergonomic disaster.Build quality was 2nd to none though.
The Epson RD1 as previously noted. Good design, simple to operate and the "fold away back screen". I wish they would make a 16-18mp Epson RD2. Also preceded Leica's digital M's by two years. Not really unrecognized as such.
There are more of course, Foth Derby's 127 with focal plane shutters, the Horizon 202's , The Calypso with the Som Berthiot 35mm f3.5.

 

[sevo]

The Periflex - good idea, but needed more development, that periscope finder was dim!

Dunno, it always struck me as a particularly shortsighted idea - it was way too late to create a limited reflex mechanism exclusively for focusing, years after others had already begun marketing SLRs with full frame reflex finders.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Some of the following are better known than others. Any serious photographic historian is likely to have encountered, or at least heard of, most or all of them; but that doesn't make them "well known" in the usual sense -- much like most of Tom's list.

Steinheil Casca: projected moving viewfinder frames in 1949, well before the M3.

Ilford/KI Monobar 35mm monorail

OLEYO/OLIGO, single exposure Leica

Compass, 1937

Kodak Autographic 3A 1916 (first coupled rangefinder)

Focaflex (did I already mention them?)

Werra (very fast leaf shutters)

Tenax II (plunger film advance on the front of the camera)

Spirotechnique (forerunner of Nikonos)

Iloca Electric (first built in electric motor drive)

Voigtländer Vitrona (first built in electronic flash)

Perfex (extinction exposure meter built in, 1938)

Durst Automatica (first auto exposure, late 50s)

Ilford Sportsmaster (push button focus)

Graflex 35 (only 35mm ever with a rocking lever for focusing, Polaroid style)

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dunno, it always struck me as a particularly shortsighted idea - it was way too late to create a limited reflex mechanism exclusively for focusing, years after others had already begun marketing SLRs with full frame reflex finders.

No, the idea was a cheap Leica-compatible body with something better than scale focusing.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Greyscale]

Yashica TL Electro X. First stepless electronically controlled shutter, first to use electronic lights for viewfinder meter display, first battery-dependent SLR (shutter defaults to 1/500 without battery).

 

[tunalegs]

Apparently, you love to regard a lot of things and persons with suspicion, and to accuse.

I just find it amusing that somebody would be so embarrassed to have what they said quoted. I guess one should just stop writing if they're afraid people will read their opinions and reply to them. It seems pretty silly to get indignant over being quoted. 😉

Regarding the question above: If U.S. Americans (and I guess, tuna is US American), who're apparently well aware that their own country was importing huge masses of products from the «criminal» country in question, do accuse these foreign authorities of «stealing», then at the very same time they are accusing their own importers—and also their own authorities who have been allowing these imports—of «receiving and disposing of stolen goods» — in other words, their «honest» opinion appears to be that their own US American business guys, and their own US American officials, are despicable criminals, too!

After the war, the question of rightful ownership of trademarks on goods coming out of East Germany was something American importers were dealing with. But it should also be noted that the biggest importers were German families. In fact, the official importer for Exaktas in the U.S. was brother of the man who ran the Wirgin factory which produced Edixa Reflex cameras.

That's just a fact, so if you take it personally, or it injures your national pride (for some reason, I'm not really sure why you're so upset), that's not my fault. :angel:

 

[someonenameddavid]

Mamiya C's TLR series was the only one (that I know about) professional grade TLR with Interchangeable lens. I love the idea and its one of my favorites cameras. I suppose that the idea didnt got that popular because most medium format where going the SLR way on that time.

Koni-Omega had a 6x7 TLR with interchangeable lenses.... a beast which was at home in the studio and understandably didn't sell well....

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

After the war, the question of rightful ownership of trademarks on goods coming out of East Germany was something American importers were dealing with.

Ah! I inexcusably forgot the most important piece of US legal history: the very concept of «rightful ownership» is something really peculiar in US American history.
One can ask the Native Americans: What happened to their property after the White Anglo Saxon Protestant men did arrive?

That's just a fact, so if you take it personally, or it injures your national pride (for some reason, I'm not really sure why you're so upset), that's not my fault. :angel:

[My] «national pride»? Care to explain? To my ears, that's a really weird choice of words, and perhaps even a bizarre accusation, since I'm certainly not East German.

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

Roger did already mention the Werra VF/RF family, vide supra.

Additionally, if innovative exterior design matters, I'd say:

Also their SLR-cousins, the Pentacon PENTINA, were a milestone design-wise, IMHO.