dave lackey
Veteran
Last edited:
Interesting Collectible - Machine Gun Camera
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dexdog
Veteran
Interesting, I have read about these before, used to train machine gunners in Japanese military in WW2 era. IIRC, the military did not have enough ammunition to alllow live-fire training, so this was a substitute. Saw one on eBay a few years ago, but did not follow the auction.
softshock
Established
It seems to be gone now =/
ChrisN
Striving
I missed the pic - was this one made by Konishiroku? I met a collector the other night who has two in his collection. Interesting device, and interesting history and connection to the Koni Omega cameras.
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
It's still there: http://www.keh.com/camera/Miscellaneous-Collectibles-Fixed-Lens-Cameras/1/sku-AC049990867670?r=FE
I don't imagine you could do very well using this for street photography, but imagine the looks you would capture . . . briefly.
I don't imagine you could do very well using this for street photography, but imagine the looks you would capture . . . briefly.
gekopaca
French photographer
It's expensive! it costs about a human life…
dexdog
Veteran
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Believe it or not, in the mid 70s I had the 1915 Thornton Pickard Mk. III Hythe camera on which this was based. I think I paid four quid for it, and sold it for sixty-five (multiply by 10-20 for todaý's currency, i.e. 40-80 and 600-1200, or $60-100 and $1000-2000. I vaguely recall its being 16-on-127. As far as I recall I spent the money on Leica gear.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Arjay
Time Traveller
Here's more info on that odd camera:
http://ww2weaponsforum.com/showthread.php?616-Japanese-Machine-Gun-Camera
... and here's some more info (need to scroll down a bit):
http://www.seawood.com/classic-camera-corner/004-machine_gun_cameras/index.html
http://ww2weaponsforum.com/showthread.php?616-Japanese-Machine-Gun-Camera
... and here's some more info (need to scroll down a bit):
http://www.seawood.com/classic-camera-corner/004-machine_gun_cameras/index.html
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barnwulf
Well-known
Not recommended for Street Photography. Jim
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GSNfan
Well-known
Must have been part of Charleston Heston collection.
ronnies
Well-known
How do you get this through airport security ?
Ronnie
Ronnie
Sparrow
Veteran
Threatening the officials, perhaps?
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I thought Hythe gun-cameras took 120 film. Could be I'm confusing models though. The 'gun' would poke a hole in the negative to indicate the fake magazine was changed between shots.
It was loosely based on the Lewis Gun with the top mounted drum.
LeicaFoReVer
Addicted to Rangefinders
how many frames per second then? 🙂
dexdog
Veteran
I got serious questioning at an airport in Zambia once, because I was carrying a Giottos Rocket air blaster in my camera bag (I was on photo safari and had to clean my camera often throughout the day). Never occured to me that it might look like a hand grenade on an X-ray machine. They let me go after 20 minutes. I take a different blower these days.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Could well be. It may have been 16-on-120. It was a long time ago. Mine was missing the drum. Last time I checked (years ago) it was still unclear whether this was always supplied/used.
Cheers,
R.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Here you go:
Hythe Gun camera Mk III,
Used to practice air gunnery in the open cockpit days this Lewis gun shaped camera makes 16 pictures 4.5 x 6cm on 120 roll film on a removable internal carrier (included), f8/30cm lens. The camera-gun is made from heavy gauge brass and aluminium castings presumably the weight was to match the gun it represented on the aircraft. With original heavy wood box, spare gears and mirror. Weight of gun only; 8.75kg
Camera guns have been used as a gunnery training aid since the 1914-1918 war, when in 1916 a sight recording camera was designed at the RFC machine-gun school at Hythe in Kent. This camera gun, made by the Thornton Pickard Co. of Altringham, was similar in shape and weight to the Lewis gun. It proved to be very successful in assessing the standard of gunnery in the air. Known as the Hythe Gun Camera Mk III, it took still exposures on a 120 mm film roll. Provision was made for a multi-ring reticule and the time of exposure. The trigger, cocking action and balance were all identical to the Lewis, and a drum magazine was clipped into place. It was used mainly on Scarff ring mounts, but was also fitted onto the top wing of fighter aircrafts, controlled by a Bowden cable.
The camera gun itself is a very interesting piece of equipment. In form and weight it is modeled after the original Lewis Gun (photo below for reference). The box contains the film and a glass reticule that has a 'target' imprinted on it. When the trainee 'fires' the gun at a target plane the reticule’s grid is imprinted on the film with the photo of the targeted plane. The target plane appears in the developed photo, hopefully within the imprint of the reticule’s target.
In addition, the trainee was supposed to change the magazine (in flight) after each shot. There is a unique pin that pierces the film each time the magazine is changed. If a photo appears without the 'pinhole' it indicates the magazine was not changed. "Can't get away with anything!
At the end of a flight the film is developed and a trainer would review the results with the gunner. There are calculations that determine the angle, range, etc. of the shot.
The Hythe was used for gunnery training until the Williamson camera gun was adopted in 1934.
"British Aircraft Armament Vol 2", R. Wallace Clarke, Patrick Stephens
Seawood's Classic Machine Gun Camera Corner
Hythe Gun camera Mk III,
Used to practice air gunnery in the open cockpit days this Lewis gun shaped camera makes 16 pictures 4.5 x 6cm on 120 roll film on a removable internal carrier (included), f8/30cm lens. The camera-gun is made from heavy gauge brass and aluminium castings presumably the weight was to match the gun it represented on the aircraft. With original heavy wood box, spare gears and mirror. Weight of gun only; 8.75kg
Camera guns have been used as a gunnery training aid since the 1914-1918 war, when in 1916 a sight recording camera was designed at the RFC machine-gun school at Hythe in Kent. This camera gun, made by the Thornton Pickard Co. of Altringham, was similar in shape and weight to the Lewis gun. It proved to be very successful in assessing the standard of gunnery in the air. Known as the Hythe Gun Camera Mk III, it took still exposures on a 120 mm film roll. Provision was made for a multi-ring reticule and the time of exposure. The trigger, cocking action and balance were all identical to the Lewis, and a drum magazine was clipped into place. It was used mainly on Scarff ring mounts, but was also fitted onto the top wing of fighter aircrafts, controlled by a Bowden cable.
The camera gun itself is a very interesting piece of equipment. In form and weight it is modeled after the original Lewis Gun (photo below for reference). The box contains the film and a glass reticule that has a 'target' imprinted on it. When the trainee 'fires' the gun at a target plane the reticule’s grid is imprinted on the film with the photo of the targeted plane. The target plane appears in the developed photo, hopefully within the imprint of the reticule’s target.
In addition, the trainee was supposed to change the magazine (in flight) after each shot. There is a unique pin that pierces the film each time the magazine is changed. If a photo appears without the 'pinhole' it indicates the magazine was not changed. "Can't get away with anything!
At the end of a flight the film is developed and a trainer would review the results with the gunner. There are calculations that determine the angle, range, etc. of the shot.
The Hythe was used for gunnery training until the Williamson camera gun was adopted in 1934.
"British Aircraft Armament Vol 2", R. Wallace Clarke, Patrick Stephens
Seawood's Classic Machine Gun Camera Corner
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Rick,
Gosh!
Thanks,
Cheers,
R.
Gosh!
Thanks,
Cheers,
R.
bigeye
Well-known
Roger: That would have made a very nice mount on the Landie, with it having a little more leg room than a jeep.
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