back alley
IMAGES
another bad tv night...
i am wondering, based on many negative comments about rff being a gear oriented site and the inferences made that would indicate that some feel a gear site somehow is a barrier to creative improvement...what you think about it?
can being on the net too much really stifle our creativity?
does talking about gear with like minded folks deter us from using that same gear in a creative manner?
does my rambling on about which lens to get next or sell next or why i am liking the drf experience so much really stop others from enjoying their photographic experiences?
will using one lens and one camera help us to see better?
will taking a break from the few people on the planet that 'get it', it being the rf experience, somehow clear the mind of the foolishness that sometimes passes as intelligent conversation?
will not seeing poor photographs being hailed as great, or hearing the 'experts' praise lenses that are old and passed their prime really impact anyone to the point that their photography will noticeably improve?
i am so very curious.
i am amazed that an internet forum can hold such power over so many.
should we all just go out and photograph our part of the world, post on flickr and then go out and shoot some more?
or is there hope for us that like to chat, be it electronically or not, with others whose eyes do not glaze over when the word rangefinder is spoken?
i am curious to hear what others have to say.
joe
i am wondering, based on many negative comments about rff being a gear oriented site and the inferences made that would indicate that some feel a gear site somehow is a barrier to creative improvement...what you think about it?
can being on the net too much really stifle our creativity?
does talking about gear with like minded folks deter us from using that same gear in a creative manner?
does my rambling on about which lens to get next or sell next or why i am liking the drf experience so much really stop others from enjoying their photographic experiences?
will using one lens and one camera help us to see better?
will taking a break from the few people on the planet that 'get it', it being the rf experience, somehow clear the mind of the foolishness that sometimes passes as intelligent conversation?
will not seeing poor photographs being hailed as great, or hearing the 'experts' praise lenses that are old and passed their prime really impact anyone to the point that their photography will noticeably improve?
i am so very curious.
i am amazed that an internet forum can hold such power over so many.
should we all just go out and photograph our part of the world, post on flickr and then go out and shoot some more?
or is there hope for us that like to chat, be it electronically or not, with others whose eyes do not glaze over when the word rangefinder is spoken?
i am curious to hear what others have to say.
joe
venchka
Veteran
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
No.
Maybe.
It depends.
I shouldn't even be here. Guilty as charged. Too much internet. Not enough creating.
I have learned some very helpful things on the internet. I spent too much time learning a little.
I need to stay away. It's a habit. Bad habit.
Later.
Yes.
Yes.
No.
Maybe.
It depends.
I shouldn't even be here. Guilty as charged. Too much internet. Not enough creating.
I have learned some very helpful things on the internet. I spent too much time learning a little.
I need to stay away. It's a habit. Bad habit.
Later.
capitalK
Warrior Poet :P
This thread reminded me of a cartoon on www.whattheduck.net
This is hotlinked from someone who stole it, so I'm not stealing the artists bandwidth to link it here...
This is hotlinked from someone who stole it, so I'm not stealing the artists bandwidth to link it here...
venchka
Veteran
I'm going to print the cartoon. Paste it to my camera bags. Thanks!
I shouldn't be here.
I shouldn't be here.
rya
Established
For what it is worth, RFF is largely responsible for my re-entry of film. If I didn't spend hours reading here and cameraquest, I would not have bought a Leica and a film scanner.
I hate reading arguments about Leica vs any other camera and the like. I've heard it before and I will hear it again, and I find many posts on such things to be very redundant. If you don't know what I mean, think about digital versus film arguments. Original thoughts on that topic are hard to come by. I suppose this is why I am here and not at photo.argue.
In contrast to that, I read some posts on equipment that are very helpful and are helping me find my style. For example, I am considering removing the batteries from my M6 and learning to shoot only checking with a handheld meter. Without reading RFF, I would probably have kept shooting with the same method and concern for accuracy. Thus the equipment chatter encourages my curiosity in working different ways, which make a difference in my production.
If anyone would like to critique my blog, I would listen to/read every word in response and appreciate anything I got. I worry when someone posts photos on the site but reacts negatively to critique--it is one thing to defend your work, but doing so vehemently discourages others from telling you things that will only make you better. There was a recent thread about using the Simon Cowell approach. While this might be harsh and unfavorable here, I've heard that some professors at Yale have been known to employ this 'Bob Knight' technique. Without a class or group of watchers to critique my work, I don't care what approach people want to use, I just want to know what they think. Maybe we should start more threads with a set of photos for discussion.
Sorry if I have drifted off-topic, but your list of questions got me thinking and dumping the thoughts linearly. I have learned a lot of useful information from this site, about equipment and photography in general.
I hate reading arguments about Leica vs any other camera and the like. I've heard it before and I will hear it again, and I find many posts on such things to be very redundant. If you don't know what I mean, think about digital versus film arguments. Original thoughts on that topic are hard to come by. I suppose this is why I am here and not at photo.argue.
In contrast to that, I read some posts on equipment that are very helpful and are helping me find my style. For example, I am considering removing the batteries from my M6 and learning to shoot only checking with a handheld meter. Without reading RFF, I would probably have kept shooting with the same method and concern for accuracy. Thus the equipment chatter encourages my curiosity in working different ways, which make a difference in my production.
If anyone would like to critique my blog, I would listen to/read every word in response and appreciate anything I got. I worry when someone posts photos on the site but reacts negatively to critique--it is one thing to defend your work, but doing so vehemently discourages others from telling you things that will only make you better. There was a recent thread about using the Simon Cowell approach. While this might be harsh and unfavorable here, I've heard that some professors at Yale have been known to employ this 'Bob Knight' technique. Without a class or group of watchers to critique my work, I don't care what approach people want to use, I just want to know what they think. Maybe we should start more threads with a set of photos for discussion.
Sorry if I have drifted off-topic, but your list of questions got me thinking and dumping the thoughts linearly. I have learned a lot of useful information from this site, about equipment and photography in general.
antiquark
Derek Ross
On the contrary, trying different lenses, focal lengths, film types, will increase creativity.
Only if you spend so much time online that you stop taking pictures.
Only if the gear is so expensive that your afraid of scratching it.
No.
Using one lens will teach you oodles about composition. I'm not sure what using one camera will teach you. Maybe you'll learn the technicalities of focusing and exposure.
I'll tell you when I finally own an RF!
If you see something in the forum that triggers your BS filters, just scroll through the page a little faster (the scroll wheel is your friend!)
I think some people get too involved on the internet. IMHO, it's better to stay "distanced".
Some people try to find meaning in photography.
There is always hope!
Papa Smurf
Established
Maybe / maybe not, there is a saying that "practice makes perfect." That is incorrect. It should say that, "perfect practice makes perfect." How am I, out here in the boondocks, ever going to improve or even know that I need to improve without forums and discussions such as rff? I have been very merrily taking photographs since I was 16. Did I know that they were awful? Maybe I did, but with no one to talk to I continued to wander in the wilderness of awful photos. Technically, some of them were O.K. Even a complete novice can tell if the focus and exposure are correct, but aesthetically most of them were horrid, just Kodak Brownie grade snapshots. This forum, with its many discussions and its galleries of images, has given to me a point of reference to judge mine and others images. At least now when I see a picture that grabs me, sometimes, I even understand why it does!
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Gumby
Veteran
Who cares what others think... is an opinion or two going to be a catalyst for change? If this is more than just a passing wonderment, perhaps you ask "mirror, mirror, on the wall, with over 22,000 posts have I said it all?"
(I hope that's not too philosphical!)
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maddoc
... likes film again.
I can`t speak about others just my two cents .... How much RFF influences the personal attitude towards photography only depends on how much the individual can be influenced. If somebody prefers to spent free time in the dark-room, actually doing photography or doing photography related things (visiting galleries) he won`t spent much time here at RFF or any other photography related forum. On the other hand, if somebody is strongly attracted by cameras he will spent probably more time here at RFF and discuss gear-related topics.
Anyhow, it is good to have a place like RFF.
Anyhow, it is good to have a place like RFF.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Obviously using one camera and one lens until the camera becomes so familiar to operate that it essentially becomes invisible, and using a single lens until you can see the image framed by that lens before putting it to your eye, will make you a better photographer. It's hard to argue with that.
If you constantly churn through different cameras, formats and lenses, you will never reach that same place. But...
Many people like messing with cameras more than, or equally, with making photos. And some who start out messing with cameras eventually realize it is more important to shoot photos, and go off to do so. Different strokes.
If you constantly churn through different cameras, formats and lenses, you will never reach that same place. But...
Many people like messing with cameras more than, or equally, with making photos. And some who start out messing with cameras eventually realize it is more important to shoot photos, and go off to do so. Different strokes.
I should have brought my Leica M3 out today. Put the 5cm F1.5 Sonnar on one, and the 8.5cm f2 Nikkor on the other. I brought a Nikon F2SB with 55/1.2 Nikkor-SC and a Nikon F2 Photomic with a 105/2.5 Nikkor-P on it. I brought them to a Piano Recital, and got right up front to take pictures as the usual photographer could not make it. I did not have to use flash, inspite of a very strong backlight. I was the only person not using a flash for shots of the performances of family members.
BUT: I was 7ft away from the players, about the only seat that you could see their faces and hands on the keys. I forgot how loud an F2 could be in an otherwise quiet room. My Nephew let me know that he could hear the camera while playing. Nikki did not care. Next time I will bring the Leica. I'll be making copies of the pictures and giving them to the piano teacher to give to her students. Free of course.
Knowing about gear, its plusses and minusses, is part of photography. I would not have taken better pictures with the Leica, it just would have been quieter.
BUT: I was 7ft away from the players, about the only seat that you could see their faces and hands on the keys. I forgot how loud an F2 could be in an otherwise quiet room. My Nephew let me know that he could hear the camera while playing. Nikki did not care. Next time I will bring the Leica. I'll be making copies of the pictures and giving them to the piano teacher to give to her students. Free of course.
Knowing about gear, its plusses and minusses, is part of photography. I would not have taken better pictures with the Leica, it just would have been quieter.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Hmmm. You know about the difference between cameras, though, and you still took the noisy camera!
Usually, we are back about 20ft and take pictures of Nikki and my Nephew. Today, the teacher asked if I could get everyone as her regular photographer could not make it. At least the F2SB meter was good in spite of the backlight... But with the first "CLICK", I was regretting the choice...
EVIL SLR's!
EVIL SLR's!
monochromejrnl
Well-known
think/talk less, act more
bmattock
Veteran
I don't watch too much TV.
I like gear and talking about gear, with the exception of anti-digital screeds.
Discussion forums do not help my photography directly, but they don't hurt it either, and they do add to my knowledge and entertain me. Going bowling doesn't help my photography, either - but I like to do it. So what?
It strikes me as strange that people would come here to complain about how much they dislike it. If they don't like it...why are they here?
If you do it to the exclusion of taking photos, I suppose. Being on the net too much probably also stifles moving out of one's parent's house, getting a job, and perhaps having a girlfriend. It's like what being a Trekkie was back in the 80's, only more so. Back for the complexion, for those who only have an LCD tan, I guess.
No.
No. Except talking about bags and straps. That causes my spleen to explode. Messy business, that.
Nope. It will help us to become more the master of that one lens and camera, but it won't make anyone more creative, any more than cutting off one leg makes one a better runner. It just makes you better at getting around with one leg.
???
???
I was here before the internet was. I'm tougher than it is.
Only if that's what we want to do. It's what I like to do, but to each their own. Taking photographs, at least, seems to be kind of required if one is a photographer. Unless there's some zen art of no-photography photography that I'm unaware of.
I'm sorry, what? My eyes just glazed over. Just kidding.
I say talk is fine, and talk about gear is fine. I certainly enjoy most of that. And going out and taking photographs is fine too. They're not the same thing. And that's also fine.
I don't see the problem.
Gumby
Veteran
Could have been worse... you could have been using a Hasselblad:
CLACK, WHoos WHoooop. ziiiiip.
Gumby
Veteran
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
That will teach you to never leave home without a Leica...
RFF is a great place to hang-out while developing, scanning or printing. A resource that beats the old photographic encyclopaedia set my dad use to have.
Jay Decker
Meat Robot
rff, flickr, photo.net, etc. have a problem... signal to noise ratio. There is some great information, ideas, photographs, and creative flow going on there. However, everyone now has a computer, but not everyone who finds their way to rff contributes to the signal, the creative content, the threads that are worth your time to read...
What I think I'm starting to observe more and more is that people, including myself, cycle in and out of the forums. When they feel that they are spending too much time to trying to sift through noise to find the content, they back off the forums and go participate in life and take more photographs.
I'm not apposed to having some fun with silly threads and such, but I wish there was a way to filter the noise and get to the good stuff.
Jay
who feels that life is too short to piss it away on the internet
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WDPictures
Established
Good thread topic because it puts an interesting spin on some dead horses yet brings the discussion out with open ended questions regarding gear matters and creative sparks.
Gear and creativity are personal things right? At least for me I use the information gathered here to generate my own ideas. I enjoy checking out the Strobist type stuff as well, and some of it is certainly inventive, but the lighting kits and studio gear just doesn't interest my creative side like some of the topics I read here.
The Flickr discussions are in a different category, I'll just say that I prefer a visual interaction there.
Too much art speak about creativity can be just as limiting. Do you really want art critic reviews of your creative style? Or how many times can you read "wow, that is the greatest image I have ever seen, ever" Its hard to respond or contribute further to posts like that.
Personally my gear interests are less technically and more creatively inclined. I still find useful ideas here and ways to contribute to RFF.
Gear and creativity are personal things right? At least for me I use the information gathered here to generate my own ideas. I enjoy checking out the Strobist type stuff as well, and some of it is certainly inventive, but the lighting kits and studio gear just doesn't interest my creative side like some of the topics I read here.
The Flickr discussions are in a different category, I'll just say that I prefer a visual interaction there.
Too much art speak about creativity can be just as limiting. Do you really want art critic reviews of your creative style? Or how many times can you read "wow, that is the greatest image I have ever seen, ever" Its hard to respond or contribute further to posts like that.
Personally my gear interests are less technically and more creatively inclined. I still find useful ideas here and ways to contribute to RFF.