Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
I've managed to get very lucky (thanks, Tony!) with great "opportunities" - I've never paid Leica's MAP price. Even my M10-P came in at a great price (at least as Leica prices go).
So I suppose you never know. ...
oldwino
Well-known
Processing?
Corran
Well-known
That doesn't really matter, the point is the MAP is essentially unchanged given inflation (and used prices are probably a steady % decline too giving similar results after an equal amount of time after release).
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
No - in the Leica world you pay extra for the privilege of engraving (and the elimination of the red dot).
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If I'm looking at a camera that costs $x,xxx (minimum advertised price "MAP" - or the price I'd pay anywhere else) and the dealer says I have a demo or factory "B" model (or whatever) at a ~$2,000 savings, the last thing I'm thinking is "that really doesn't matter"!
Huss
Veteran
You miss the point. He is saying the increase in resolution is not worth it giving the decrease in colour depth.
The colour from the regular M10 is better, as is from the SL2.
Ricoh
Well-known
How can an algorithm process something that doesn’t exist?! If it does it’s referred to as interpolation.
Wondering if they’ve introduced what the industry term a back illuminated sensor?
Freakscene
Obscure member
Better and different signal processing. CSA x depth assumes all else is equal, which in this case it is not.
Because nothing is perfect - so a, for example, 75% efficiency can be improved to 80%. Our cameras are nowhere near theoretical optimum.
No, it doesn’t have a bsi sensor.
Marty
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Getting hung up on the price is the usual silliness on the introduction of any Leica. I choose to consider the camera and not think about the price.
Based on the review posted by Jono Slack, the advantage of the M10-R is in the sensor itself: it simply does a better job of producing very usable image files. Which is not to say that the M10/-P/-M/-D don't do a good job. The disadvantage of the M10-R is that it's a bit slower due to the data volume. Otherwise, it has most of the added features of the M10-P.
The M10-R piques my interest purely because I have M-mount lenses to work with, but honestly I've departed from the M as my baseline hand-held camera (the CL took its place and does a better job for what I use it for). Nothing is convincing me that I need/want to go get another M just yet. I suspect that if I were to go for another M, I'd be more likely to pick the M10-M or M10-D for the different handling (D) or monochrome only feature (M) compared to the M10/M10-P/M10-R.
But my higher end camera has moved to larger than FF format, where the value is not just pixels but significantly larger dynamic range never mind the modularity of that system, and I'm more likely to add a lens to that system than to expand the M system at this time. I never say never, however.
G
Based on the review posted by Jono Slack, the advantage of the M10-R is in the sensor itself: it simply does a better job of producing very usable image files. Which is not to say that the M10/-P/-M/-D don't do a good job. The disadvantage of the M10-R is that it's a bit slower due to the data volume. Otherwise, it has most of the added features of the M10-P.
The M10-R piques my interest purely because I have M-mount lenses to work with, but honestly I've departed from the M as my baseline hand-held camera (the CL took its place and does a better job for what I use it for). Nothing is convincing me that I need/want to go get another M just yet. I suspect that if I were to go for another M, I'd be more likely to pick the M10-M or M10-D for the different handling (D) or monochrome only feature (M) compared to the M10/M10-P/M10-R.
But my higher end camera has moved to larger than FF format, where the value is not just pixels but significantly larger dynamic range never mind the modularity of that system, and I'm more likely to add a lens to that system than to expand the M system at this time. I never say never, however.
G
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I went to bicycle shop to replace two spokes on 2013 Triumph Canada Tire 100 CAD bicycle. All bicycles they had where above 1K. Good to me owner of another bike shop told me if I want quality road bicycle I have to pay at least 1K. 2K, 3K road bicycles are very common in the stores. Just bicycles. Made in millions.
So, M10something which nowhere else made and full of parts and electronics, plus German labor....
So, M10something which nowhere else made and full of parts and electronics, plus German labor....
Huss
Veteran
A while back I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about how much it costs US mfgs to have their bikes made in China, which they then sell in the US.
About $20/bike. Which they sell for $700+.
Of course they laid off their workers in the US because it was no longer profitable to make bikes here.
What does this have to do with Leica? Nothing, just mentioned it cuz Ko.Fe mentioned bikes.
Leicas are and always have been expensive cameras. Why do some act surprised every time a new one comes out?
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
On a positive note, Raid was tickled pink to plunk down 4+K for a used M10, I can't giveaway my Fuji Xpro1, I can expect to get 2K or close for my M9 that I was tickled pink to buy for 3K a year and a half ago. The Fuji GFX 50r that I got a year ago is going for less than half price now. So, what's the better investment? So far as a digital camera is anything resembling an investment.
Huss
Veteran
Nothing digital is an investment.
And the only way not to lose money buying stuff like lenses is to buy them used, no matter who makes them.
CVickery
Established
traveler_101
American abroad
No, you missed the larger point which is here after the discussion of the limits of the camera's colour rendition: "But you can get fantastic, gorgeous photos from this camera. And in addition to that, you also have the whole experience of using it. But if I were you, I’d tell you to skip it. 40MP isn’t a whole lot of resolution comparatively. Go for the Leica SL2 ."
What is the point of pursuing megapixels in a M camera when there are better instruments for that?
Ricoh
Well-known
Sounds like a quote from this: https://www.thephoblographer.com/2020/07/16/the-true-successor-to-the-leica-m9-leica-m10r-review/
Personally I’m more than happy with the M240, and secondly I could not justify spending so much for the M10R. If I upgrade at some point it would probably be a ‘standard’ M10, P maybe.
Where? .....
jarski
Veteran
new film M-A just under $5000 don't seem so much anymore
(comment from digital shooter
)571514m3
Established
Introducing the Leica M 10-R
Is it a lot? I would really like to know if a Leica was ever less costly than this one. A new one I mean. Let's take that M3 I bought second hand in 75 when I could not afford the M4. I bought it with a 35 Summaron. I was a student at the time and had to drive a taxi for around 100 hrs to pay for it. When I graduated I bought a Submariner, and for that I had to work (still taxi!) around 200hrs.
So what does that that mean in today's terms of work and purchase power? I have a feeling that a new M10-R is (yes) expensive but no more so than the M10-P I bought 4 or 5 years ago and in terms of opportunity-cost-of-purchase-pain no more than the M3 I bought.
FWIW, after the M3 I then bought a used M5 and in the end exchanged the M3+M5+Summaron+90 Elmar for a new Nikon F2AS+FE+2/85+2.8/24+4/80-200+SB24 which I all still have and have dragged to the ends of the earth. But was the Nikon kit worth the same as two used film M's and a couple of lenses? In case you want to know, I did go back to M3, M-P and a few select old and new lenses that I like. And strangely, they have given me lots of joy and I completely forgot what they cost me except that it took me quite a while to save up for them by doing my own car service, house repairs and other stuff.
But the basic feeling is that yes the price for the M10-R sounds a lot, but it is a heck of a camera at the same time. Fortunately i don't need it at all. Those who don't have a M9, M or M10 probably do because nothing comes close if you move between film and digital and also those old lenses are too good to not use on digital. And you could even get a BEEON to digitize film! How cool is Leica to backward compatible?
Interested in your comments about cost though...
Is it a lot? I would really like to know if a Leica was ever less costly than this one. A new one I mean. Let's take that M3 I bought second hand in 75 when I could not afford the M4. I bought it with a 35 Summaron. I was a student at the time and had to drive a taxi for around 100 hrs to pay for it. When I graduated I bought a Submariner, and for that I had to work (still taxi!) around 200hrs.
So what does that that mean in today's terms of work and purchase power? I have a feeling that a new M10-R is (yes) expensive but no more so than the M10-P I bought 4 or 5 years ago and in terms of opportunity-cost-of-purchase-pain no more than the M3 I bought.
FWIW, after the M3 I then bought a used M5 and in the end exchanged the M3+M5+Summaron+90 Elmar for a new Nikon F2AS+FE+2/85+2.8/24+4/80-200+SB24 which I all still have and have dragged to the ends of the earth. But was the Nikon kit worth the same as two used film M's and a couple of lenses? In case you want to know, I did go back to M3, M-P and a few select old and new lenses that I like. And strangely, they have given me lots of joy and I completely forgot what they cost me except that it took me quite a while to save up for them by doing my own car service, house repairs and other stuff.
But the basic feeling is that yes the price for the M10-R sounds a lot, but it is a heck of a camera at the same time. Fortunately i don't need it at all. Those who don't have a M9, M or M10 probably do because nothing comes close if you move between film and digital and also those old lenses are too good to not use on digital. And you could even get a BEEON to digitize film! How cool is Leica to backward compatible?
Interested in your comments about cost though...
Can you drive a taxi for 100hrs and afford the M10R?