IR filter distracting for street work...

[KM-25]

I am at the first annual Festival of the photograph in Charlottesville, VA:

http://www.festivalofthephotograph.org/index.html

Several shooters are using M8's. Three of them legendary NGS / Magnum shooters. As I worked in and around them at a special gathering for Eugene Richards last night, I was really caught off guard by how much of a give away or distraction that the bright red IR filter is. I am not talking a little bit either, at one point, one of the shooters was right next to me and it was even fairly dark. I saw a big red spot in my peripheral vision that was totally ridiculous for a camera maker known for discreet image making.

In low light, I will often remove my filters from my lenses as the flat optical surface reflects light much easier. The well coated and curved surfaces of the glass alone with no filter is nearly impossible to pick up in a dark room.

The IR filter is significantly distracting to subjects, several people commented on this besides my self.

I was considering an M8, but I can't have those silly filters announcing to the world that I am shooting images.

In one instance, I spotted an M8 shooter in a dark crowd over 100 feet away due to the filter's bright color....

 

[wontonny]

It's the gods telling us to stick with film.

 

[Gid]

Hmmm, interesting. Neither the Leica nor the B+W filters show any red except when at an oblique (and specific) angle to the light and then only if you hold it in that position. Neither show as "red" when viewed from a "normal" shooting angle even if you shine a light directly at them. Even when it does show, it is very pale. I guess you must have confused the red dot with the filter 😉

 

[pfogle]

I'd wondered about this - but doesn't a decent lens hood prevent seeing the filter from the side, where the reflection is strongest?

 

[Gid]

I'd wondered about this - but doesn't a decent lens hood prevent seeing the filter from the side, where the reflection is strongest?

Indeed it does.

 

[KM-25]

Hmmm, interesting. Neither the Leica nor the B+W filters show any red except when at an oblique (and specific) angle to the light and then only if you hold it in that position. Neither show as "red" when viewed from a "normal" shooting angle even if you shine a light directly at them. Even when it does show, it is very pale. I guess you must have confused the red dot with the filter 😉

Nope, it is the filter and it is very bright when angled like you say. So when the photographer moves a little or the angle is right, it is like a bright red signal mirror.
I am taking a workshop with David Alan Harvey for the next couple of days, he will be using it and I will try to see just how much I notice it in this situation.

Last night and the night before, it was insane just how distracting it was. Lens hoods helped a bit, but not totally...

 

[Ben Z]

Several shooters are using M8's. Three of them legendary NGS / Magnum shooters. ...

I was considering an M8, but I can't have those silly filters announcing to the world that I am shooting images.

Apparently those three legendary NGS/Magnum shooters plus Harvey don't see the filters as detrimental to their work, but as always, everyone's standards are different. Personally I tend to recognize that someone nearby is using a camera, whether or not it has a red filter, and even if it has black tape over the logos, as I would expect most people do who know what a camera is. That said the M8 is a huge expenditure for many people and it'd be silly for you to buy one if it doesn't suit your requirements.

 

[Edward Felcher]

Last night and the night before, it was insane just how distracting it was. Lens hoods helped a bit, but not totally...

I think "insane" is the key word in this thread.

 

[Sparrow]

I assumed the IR filters are clear or almost clear, as they are absorbing outside the visible spectrum, are they coloured?

 

[Edward Felcher]

I assumed the IR filters are clear or almost clear, as they are absorbing outside the visible spectrum, are they coloured?

I don't think you can say "coloured" anymore. It's more politically corrrect to say "black" or "red".

 

[Sparrow]

I don't think you can say "coloured" anymore. It's more politically corrrect to say "black" or "red".

Sorry for any offence, but I will, without prejudice, use whatever words I wish in their proper context

 

[furcafe]

I don't disagree w/your observation or those of other photographers, but I'm not sure your sample isn't a bit skewed. I would expect a crowd that included a great many professional, Leica-savvy, photographers to notice things that regular folks wouldn't (like the fact that people were shooting M8's or what have you). I haven't had a single non-photographer take any special notice of my using a lens w/the UV/IR cut filter attached as opposed to a lens w/a regular UV filter or no filter attached.

So I think the real lesson may be: don't use cut filters around Leica users if you want to be discreet (or use a bigger hood). 😛

I am at the first annual Festival of the photograph in Charlottesville, VA:

http://www.festivalofthephotograph.org/index.html

Several shooters are using M8's. Three of them legendary NGS / Magnum shooters. As I worked in and around them at a special gathering for Eugene Richards last night, I was really caught off guard by how much of a give away or distraction that the bright red IR filter is. I am not talking a little bit either, at one point, one of the shooters was right next to me and it was even fairly dark. I saw a big red spot in my peripheral vision that was totally ridiculous for a camera maker known for discreet image making.

In low light, I will often remove my filters from my lenses as the flat optical surface reflects light much easier. The well coated and curved surfaces of the glass alone with no filter is nearly impossible to pick up in a dark room.

The IR filter is significantly distracting to subjects, several people commented on this besides my self.

I was considering an M8, but I can't have those silly filters announcing to the world that I am shooting images.

In one instance, I spotted an M8 shooter in a dark crowd over 100 feet away due to the filter's bright color....

 

[Edward Felcher]

Sorry for any offence, but I will, without prejudice, use whatever words I wish in their proper context

I guess what they say about British sense of humour must not be true.....

 

[thefsb]

The IR filter is significantly distracting to subjects, several people commented on this besides my self.

I was considering an M8, but I can't have those silly filters announcing to the world that I am shooting images.

please pardon my ignorance but i'm in the dark here...

why do they use an IR filter on a digital camera? does it have an IR sensor?

your last sentence seems to siggest that using an M8 means you have to use an IR filter. why?

(i assume that when you say IR filter you mean one that filters out blue and green, like a wratten 25, that you might use with IR sensitive b&w film such as HIE?)

 

[Edward Felcher]

please pardon my ignorance but i'm in the dark here...

why do they use an IR filter on a digital camera? does it have an IR sensor?

your last sentence seems to siggest that using an M8 means you have to use an IR filter. why?

(i assume that when you say IR filter you mean one that filters out blue and green, like a wratten 25, that you might use with IR sensitive b&w film such as HIE?)

The Leica M8 doesn't have an IR filter in front of the sensor, so you get an occasional color error when photographing certain objects in certain situations.

So every nut case started howling on the internet. So Leica handed out free IR filters to M8 buyers, which screw in, in front of the lens, and that solves the problem.

So, now the nuts don't like the filters either.

That's basically the short version.

 

[John Rountree]

I do not intend to hijack this thread, but Eugene Richards is one of my favorite photographers. Could you point me to any more information about this gathering to honor him?

 

[Sparrow]

I guess what they say about British sense of humour must not be true.....

The sense of humours is intact thanks; the communication of it on the internet can get flaky however


Apologies :angel:

 

[Joe Mondello]

Don't use 'em.

Check out Jono Slack's thread on NOT using IR filters for most color work here . . .

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/24123-freedom-filters-here-lies-heresy.html

 

[furcafe]

FWIW, Jonathan's thread was about his experience w/landscape photography, not street/documentary, which is the context for KM-25's post.

Don't use 'em.

Check out Jono Slack's thread on NOT using IR filters for most color work here . . .

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/24123-freedom-filters-here-lies-heresy.html

 

[blakley]

The Leica M8 doesn't have an IR filter in front of the sensor, so you get an occasional color error when photographing certain objects in certain situations.

So every nut case started howling on the internet. So Leica handed out free IR filters to M8 buyers, which screw in, in front of the lens, and that solves the problem.

So, now the nuts don't like the filters either.

That's basically the short version.

Short but not correct. The M8 does have an IR filter on the sensor; it's just not as effective as those on some other digital cameras.