IR filter distracting for street work...

blakley said:
Short but not correct. The M8 does have an IR filter on the sensor; it's just not as effective as those on some other digital cameras.
Sort of. There isn't a glass IR filter in front of the sensor. There is supposed to be something on the surface of the sensor itself.

September 18, 2006 – Last Friday, Eastman Kodak Company announced the new Kodak KAF-10500 image sensor found in the first digital Leica rangefinder camera, the M8. As the second collaboration between the two companies, the Kodak CCD sensor promises low noise, high sensitivity, and wide dynamic range for the Leica M8, according to Kodak’s press release.

Kodak, who has provided sensors for Hasselblad in Phase One digital backs, partnered with Leica for a second time for the digital M8. Kodak and Leica first joined ranks in making the repeatedly delayed Leica Digital-Module-R, the world’s first digital and analog camera that takes film and SD memory cards.

Leica, who also released its first DSLR last week - which uses a live view-enabled Olympus NMOS sensor, also found in the Olympus E-330 and Panasonic L1 - elected to fit the M8 with the new 10 megapixel 27 x 18 mm Kodak KAF-10500 CCD sensor based on the low noise characteristics of the chip and its ability to confirm to the M8's physical design parameters.

The design of the Leica M8 and Kodak sensor took a couple years, said Mike DeLuca, Kodak market segment management for image sensor group, in an interview with DigitalCameraInfo.com.

“Kodak designed and optimized the new image sensor to meet the demanding needs of Leica photographers,” stated the release. Kodak specifically modeled the new KAF-10500 image sensor with the Leica M8 in mind.

Kodak used Indium Tin Oxide (ITO) on the CCD sensor to create low noise, high sensitivity, and a wide dynamic range. The sensor also has anti-blooming protection to preserve image information in high light situations, stated the release.

The M8's KAF-10500 imager is designed with a microlens to prevent vignetting. Unlike DSLRs, the Leica M8 lacks a mirror reflex box to preserve the body’s compact design. To conserve space, the sensor sits close to the lens. When used with a wide angle lens, a compact body without a mirror box allows light in through sharp angles, creating the problematic vignettes. The Kodak sensor, however, as DeLuca explains, compensates for proper light allowance and thwarts lens vignettes.

In addition to the micro lens, the Kodak sensor helps keep the Leica body small applying with its infrared light filter coating directly on its glass. Unlike other cameras that contain an extra element to filter IR light, the Leica M8 contains the IR filter right on the sensor to conserve space. “There is not an additional element in place,” said DeLuca, “but [the camera sensor] still has the IR-absorbing characteristics.”

When asked why Kodak and Leica opted for a CCD sensor over a CMOS sensor, DeLuca said, “It was very clear the full frame CCD was the path to go down because of the performance it was able to provide.”

Although Kodak sensors have been used in a respectable list of high-performance cameras, DeLuca notes, “the achievement is working closely with a customer that is so well known for the quality of devices that they deliver. To work with Leica…we are as proud of that as we are the technology we deliver.”

 
Hi KM,

The reflection you see is probably so visible because you are not the subject of the photograph being taken. You can hardly see the filter within a 45 degree angle. I suspect you are watching those photographers work from a greater angle. I have never had any of my subjects notice or mention the IR filter. All they say is: "what a small camera" .
 
jackal2513 said:
what a tedious thread



do you think the magnum photographers would worry about any of this sh1te ?
surely the point is that the OP did worry about it. That's what the forum's for IMO.
 
at what angle does the filter glow red? if it's not in your lens's angle of view, there's no need to worry.
 
I have IR cut filters on all my lenses and nobody has noticed - it must have been the red dot....
 
I was looking at my wife today as she was using my m8, with the Leica uv/ir filter and could not see any red/cyan coloring what so ever, from any angle. it is there but you have to look close to see it. I have some heliopan uv/ir filters which i bought while waiting for my leica filters. the tint is more noticable on them, but hardly distracting, by any definition.

Gene
 
John Rountree said:
I do not intend to hijack this thread, but Eugene Richards is one of my favorite photographers. Could you point me to any more information about this gathering to honor him?

The day before the Festival started ( which has apparently made history by the way ) We had a small gallery opening for him at the McGuffey Art Center in downtown Charlottesville. He was showing a collection of very large prints called "Thirteen Books" that were stirring and stunning. After the opening, we all went off to a private festival opening party that more legendary photographers than I could count on two hands. It was very laid back and we all had a great time chatting it up, simply superlative.

Today over the course of 2 hours, Richard's was interviewed by an NPR radio personality as he gave deep insight to individual images in a 100 image slide show at the Paramount theatre, unbelievable!!!

I am fully convinced that he is by far the most brilliant photographer of his genre...incredible human being!!!
 
Well, it seems to not be such an issue in the day, but at night, it really catches incandescent lights. Now, if you are a shooter like Harvey, then you are immersed in the subject in a way that you are not even trying to hide the camera, but if you are more like Webb or Bresson, the fly on the wall approach is more the style you might shoot.

Overall, it is not *that* bad, but since this is not a curved optical surface we are talking about here and instead a flat one, it seems to be about 4 times more flashy and reflective in low light situations than a regular filter. There were no less than 10 M8's at the festival which as a testament as to it's popularity among serious shooters.

....what phenomenal event and opportunity though....
 
I usually try not to ask questions like these, but what "names" can you recall using an M8? Just curious as to who's toying seriously with it at the moment.
 
KM-25....... There were no less than 10 M8's at the festival which as a testament as to it's popularity among serious shooters..... [/quote said:
I have noticed a much greater awareness among serious photographers of the M8. In fact I was in the process of renting an commercial space to a a high end loudspeaker guy and it turned out he had an M8 also! But the really wierd thing was the old tenant, a 75 year old flutemaker, had one too!

I never would have thought....

Rex
 
I must be blind, I can't see the tint in my Leica filters hardly at all in bright or dim light. my heliopan filters do have a more noticable tint, but hardly objectionable.

Gene
 
If you look straight through (as the subject does as well) it is indeed virtually colourless. If you hold it at an 45 degree angle you can see a red shine on it. Some people think this to be distracting, but in reality people are so used to all kinds of coatings on camera lenses, that, even if a bystander(never the subject!!) would notice, he would not think twice about it.
 
If you in broad daylight turn the lens towards the light and move your arm around in front of the camera, you can see a bright red spot reflected on your arm in some angles.

This is only natural as the filter doesn't work by absorbtion as most filters do, but instead reflect the unwanted wavelenghts away from the lens.

I use Leica original filters. The characteristics might differ slightly with other brands.

/Erik
 
Correct, Eric. The size of the spot indicates that the angle of reflection is quite narrow.
It seems advisable not to wave one's arm in front of the lens when taking photographs :D (sorry, couldn't resisit)
 
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