IR hot spot with 28 Summicron

Tim Gray

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I went out and shot my first roll of HIE with my 28 Summicron. It looks like I had a hot spot in the middle of a lot of my frames. I know this phenomenon happens with some lenses and digital cameras, but have never heard of it happening with film. Anyone have any experience using HIE, and R72 (or similar) filter, and a 28 Summicron?
 
Ok, here's a pretty crummy shot with a nice dark are near the center of the frame so you can see the hot spot. For what it's worth, I didn't make any adjustments to the scan. The hot spot is about 1/4 of the image height smack dab in the center of the photo.
 

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I also experimented with IR photography lately using M8.2, summicron 28 and Heliopan 780 filter. I also faced the hot spot but haven't been shoting a lot due to bad weather.

Regards
Steve
 
I know it happens with digital. I've just never heard of it happening with film. Apparently switching lenses helps 😀 But really, opening up more can help some from what I've read.
 
Not that I know what the heck I am talking about, but, are you using a filter on the lens?

I have never even heard of this before, better suss it out before I use any of my HIE...
 
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Yeah a Hoya R72. I've shot HIE without a filter before, but now that this stuff is rarer than hens teeth, I'm only using it for 'proper' infrared photos.

Hopefully I'll be trying out a couple things soon:
- nailing down focus shift with all my lenses (one roll for that)
- hot spots for all my lenses and how aperture affects it (another roll)

Maybe I'll fit that all in one roll. I wish I could get an R72 in 39mm instead of B+W 093 filter. That sucker is expensive. And I don't like step up rings on my RF.
 
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LOL, I forgot about the IR filters. I don't know if I am using the film with Leicas or not, I have pretty much decided on my FM3A, Hasselblad XPan and 500 C/M for the 120 version.

But this hot spot stuff concerns me, I have only shot like two rolls of HIE and have never seen it.

One good person ask about it might be Geir Jordahl:

http://www.jordahlphoto.com/

His book "Searching for True North" is stunning work with the film in the XPan:

http://www.searchingfortruenorth.com/


Yeah a Hoya R72. I've shot HIE without a filter before, but now that this stuff is rarer than hens teeth, I'm only using it for 'proper' infrared photos.

Hopefully I'll be trying out a couple things soon:
- nailing down focus shift with all my lenses (one roll for that)
- hot spots for all my lenses and how aperture affects it (another roll)

Maybe I'll fit that all in one roll. I wish I could get an R72 in 39mm instead of B+W 093 filter. That sucker is expensive. And I don't like step up rings on my RF.
 
Well, from my experience, shooting IR with SLRs is a gigantic pain in the ass. Give me an RF any day for it. That whole "black viewfinder because of the IR filter" thing really sucks on SLRs. Haha.

For an R72 filter, TTL metering on my Canon 1V and my M6/M7 will get you in the right neighborhood if you set the ISO to 2500. For a 25/29 filter, ISO 400 is about right. Both of those agree with an incident meter set to ISO 50, which is about where you should set it with those filters.
 
Oh another thing, think twice about wasting any HIE on cameras that don't have smooth pressure plates. If they have dimples or date-back imprinting cutouts, etc., it can show up on your negatives.

If you have some HIE you want to get rid of, I'll buy it 🙂 When they discontinued it, all I could afford at the time was 20 rolls - I was a very poor graduate student then 🙁 Not that I'm rich, but had it been like 4 months later, I would have been able to afford 100 rolls or so.
 
Oh another thing, think twice about wasting any HIE on cameras that don't have smooth pressure plates. If they have dimples or date-back imprinting cutouts, etc., it can show up on your negatives.

cough cough, I have 2 smooth pressure plate prototypes from Hasselblad for the xpan - that I don't use. Anybody still shooting this combo?
 
This may have nothing to do with IR or with your filter.

I have a Summicron 28mm f2.0 that developed a similar spot in the center of most photos. It was akin to a flare spot at first, but eventually it appeared in nearly every shot, whether the sun was at an oblique angle to the lens surface or not. I even have a shot where I am shooting down at a 45 degree angle towards the ground with the sun to my back, and the spot is there.

I first noticed it in black & white photos as a light haze or fog in the center. Later it I begin to notice it in color photos as a central area of lavender, almost as if the photo had faded slightly and red shifted in the center of the image.

Eventually it was very noticeable. You can see the spot here in this photo from a trip I took to Georgia. Click on the photo for a larger version.



There are others in that set too, though at the time the spot was still subtle enough that I thought it was merely "pilot error".

If your lens has the same problem as my lens, then it has to do with an inferior coating used in some of the 28mm Summicrons. As the coating deteriorates, the spot will worsen and occur with or without the hood, with or without filters.

My lens was repaired by Leica as a defect. They were very courteous but the process was not speedy. It took a year to get my lens completely repaired. The first trip to Solms resulted in the two cemented groups being replaced. The second trip resulted in all the remaining groups being replaced. So I essentially have a new lens now, and for that I am appreciative of Leica's customer service. And (knock on wood) no spot in the center of my photos.

I would run test rolls in every permutation you can come up with. I did B&W and color, hood and no hood, filter and no filter, camera body 1 and camera body 2, each time finding shots that showed evidence of a central dot. I printed out paper copies of the photos and burned a CD with full-sized high resolution scans of the images, and I sent those along with photocopies of all my receipts and warranty information with the lens to Leica USA. Then I called or emailed frequently. Leica's replies were always courteous and helpful, but it just took a long time to go through all the permutations with Solms.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to pm me. Honestly I hope this is not your issue. The 28mm is my favorite lens, and I found the year long wait depressing enough to nearly sell off all my Leica stuff. I am glad now that I did not.
 
Wow I hope this isn't the same thing. However, I've yet to see it on any other photos I've taken. Only on this roll of HIE, which was the first one I've ever shot with this lens. I'll keep an eye out though...

Was this with a film camera or an M8?
 
Film. Like I said, it started as a very subtle lightening of the center that I only saw in some B&W shots where flare might normally occur - though this lens had rarely flared in 4 or 5 years of previous (nearly constant) use. I thought that perhaps I had pinholed a shutter curtain, but shooting with a couple different camera bodies eliminated that possibility. Then I thought maybe the UV filter was bad, but a new UV eliminated that possibilty. Then I started noticing it in color shots after this trip to Georgia, but only in shots where the sun was above or slightly in front of the front lens surface. I was using a Contax hood on the camera, so I switched back to the Leica plastic (enormous) hood, but the results were the same. Eventually it showed up in any shot that was brightly illuminated, including ones where the sun was clearly behind the camera (I have a shot somewhere with my shadow on the sidewalk and a nice lavender dot in the center.)

So it was a progressive issue that looked like other things until through a process of elimination indicated that it could have no other source than something in the lens. Then I just had to prove it to Solms. Since then, I have run into only one other person who has had similar issues, resolved by Solms to their benefit with a similar length of down-time before the lens was repaired. It obviously is not a common issue, and perhaps some of the delay is due to this lens being the fastest wide usable on the M8 without an accessory viewfinder - meaning, the lens is popular and a good seller, so there aren't a lot of extra lens elements hanging around at the factory to be used as replacements.

I bought my lens very early in the model run - about a month after Leica brought it out on the market. The other person similarly bought their lens early. However, when you bought it may not tell you anything, because some dealers have lenses on the shelf for years. Nor do I know whether there is any correlation between when it was made and this issue. I do know that Solms told Leica USA that the elements had been replaced due to inferior coatings used on the original elements.

Hope this is not your problem.
 
I hope so as well, especially since I bought this lens used. It came with the old white style box, so I know it's not fresh off the line. I'm sending the lens in soon for a cleaning and 6-bit coding. I might just ask about the hot spot and mention the inferior coatings things and have them check on the age of the lens to see if it's an earlier enough sample to maybe be affected...
 
There you go - MikeL brings forth some positive information. Looks like you might be in the clear!
 
I went out and shot my first roll of HIE with my 28 Summicron. It looks like I had a hot spot in the middle of a lot of my frames. I know this phenomenon happens with some lenses and digital cameras, but have never heard of it happening with film. Anyone have any experience using HIE, and R72 (or similar) filter, and a 28 Summicron?


Do you get the same problem with a 25A filter? It depends on the results you are looking for, but most people use a Red filter with HIE rather than opaque. Easy to handhold.

I don't use a 28 Summicron, but I have gotten hotspots with digital, but never with HIE...
 
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