Irrational Fear: 1/500 and 1/1000?

[Aaron Hellman]

Am I crazy to stay away from using fast shutter speeds on my Leica M2 and M4? I rarely (never?) use 1/500 or 1/1000. I think I worry about the accuracy of the mechanical shutter at these speeds. I tend to stick to speeds between 1/30 and 1/125. That's my comfort zone.

Do others use fast speeds on their film Leicas? What's your experience?

Thanks,
-Aaron

 

[charjohncarter]

I feel the same way, but I still use them on my IIIf. Ironically, I've had more trouble with slower speeds.

 

[Mackinaw]

I pretty much stay in the 1/30-1/250 range, but have no issues at 1/500-1/1000 with my MP. But I tend to avoid fast speeds with other horizontal focal plane shutter, classic rangefinders I own.

Jim B.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Don't know how I got it in my mind, but it tells me the difference in the LTM, M film shutter speed is in the opening width between curtains. Not so much in their speed. Have you ever seen Graflex set of focal shutter curtains?

I'm trying to avoid 1/4000, 1/2000 at digital M.

 

[brbo]

So you get in a situation when you’re already at f16, the light warrants 1/500 or 1/1000 (or faster) and you then take your shot at 1/250 or not at all?!

I bet you my “perfect”1/1000 M2 that you probably err just as much or more because of your metering, lens aperture, film or developing tolerances than because of Leica shutter. And it only takes you two test shots to verify your 1/500 and 1/1000 speeds produce even exposures acros the frame. If they don’t it’s time for CLA.

 

[splitimageview]

Why worry about accuracy at those speeds, but not at other speeds?

As stated above, what determines these fast speeds is simply the size of the slit opening.

One of the advantages of the higher speeds is to shoot at wide apertures. Not going to give that up. 😀

 

[jsrockit]

I would not stress this at all...

 

[Godfrey]

I would not stress this at all...

Right.

I use whatever exposure time produces the results I want. 1/1000 sec on my M4-2 is a little off (about a 1/2 EV variation across the frame, due to needing a new shutter brake) but if I need that short a shutter time, I just use it.

G

 

[retinax]

Why worry about accuracy at those speeds, but not at other speeds?

As stated above, what determines these fast speeds is simply the size of the slit opening.

And because the slit is narrow, an amount of change in slit width that would be, say, 10% of the slit width at 1/125, thus insignificant, becomes 40% change over the travel of the slit at 1/1000, which is noticeable.

I'm like the OP (although I possess no Leicas), except that I know for a fact that some fast speeds taper a bit. Nbd for me as I usually want to stop down anyway.

 

[splitimageview]

If the slit width is off, therefore the speeds are off, get the shutter adjusted.

Negative film has plenty of latitude even at +/- 40%.

 

[icebear]

How about a test series of combinations?

You meter and set exposure to e.g. f8-1/60s, and open up one f-stop and shorten your time one stop...
5.6 -1/125s and go up 4-1/250s, 2.8-1/500s, 2.0-1/1000s.

That's 5 exposures and after developing the film and inspecting the negative you know for sure which time is off, to which direction or if everything is good enough.
No worries anymore ;-)

... how many films have you shot with this camera?😀
You're welcome, you can make a donation to a charity of your choice.😉

 

[Pál_K]

As cameras age, two things usually happen if a camera hasn’t had a CLA:

1. Slow speeds become erratic and may even stop (2nd curtain doesn’t close)

2. High speeds “cap” (there is no gap between the curtains)

I test my focal plane cameras for capping like this:

- remove the lens
- set to the highest shutter speed
- aim camera at a long horizontal light, such as a neon light (lacking that, aim at an even bright surface)
- trip the shutter

You should see the light across the full width of the imaging area. If the shutter is capping, you may see no light on one side or the other. In bad cases, no light at all.

 

[Aaron Hellman]

Thanks!

Thanks!

Really appreciate everyone's thought. Lots of good ideas here. I think I should just start using faster shutter speeds and see what happens.

Thanks!

 

[Rayt]

I don’t use 1/1000 due to potential “shutter bounce”. I don’t know if that’s the right term. That’s when the certain leaves a shadow on the image. If the camera doesn’t have this problem then it’s inaccurate maybe true speed is 1/750 but that’s really not an issue.

 

[xayraa33]

Barnack Leicas like the llla and lllb had a very narrow slit formed by the two running shutter curtains to achieve the 1/1000 th of a sec. with that curtain running time of 1/20 th of a sec. It got better with the lllc and lllf BD and even better with the lllf RD .

 

[charjohncarter]

Barnack Leicas like the llla and lllb had a very narrow slit formed by the two running shutter curtains to achieve the 1/1000 th of a sec. with that curtain running time of 1/20 th of a sec. It got better with the lllc and lllf BD and even better with the lllf RD .

AHH, life with a Barnack, you can always learn something new. Thanks, at least I have a RD. But I don't know if it makes my life easier.

 

[Richard G]

No concern with my Ms. Did miss a wonderful shot using 1/500 on my IIIF. I think the curtain separation is too narrow.

 

[Bill Clark]

Leica:

1/50 to 1/30 with flash.

1/60 used with 97% of non-flash photos made.

Rarely used sny different speeds unless I have fast film on a bright day.

When I was young I could hand hold a camera down to 1/2 second. Have ta make several photos now and hope one turns out.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

It’s pretty obvious if a focal plane shutter has issues with faster speeds, and very rare in a camera that’s been serviced.

I use my gear as intended, with all the speeds provided.

 

[xayraa33]

AHH, life with a Barnack, you can always learn something new. Thanks, at least I have a RD. But I don't know if it makes my life easier.

The Leitz guys knew there was not much leeway with that slow running speed of the shutter curtains to achieve a constant slit width of less than a millimetre at the 1/1000 th speed on the early Barnacks.

The military grade stepper lllc improved this with a higher shutter curtain running time (1/30th) and ball bearings on both ends of the fat curtain drum and got good for the civilian grade lllf RD with only one curtain drum end with ball bearings and a fast shutter curtain time of 1/50th of a sec. hence a wider slit formed to achieve the 1/1000th of a sec. (and improved curtain braking to go with the higher shutter curtain running time, just like needing better brakes on a higher HP motor car.)

Up until the mid 1950s Barnack copy cat makers like Nicca did not go to a Leica llla copy and stuck with a direct Leica lll copy with only a 1/500th as a top shutter speed to play it safe.