CorreCaminos
CorreCaminos
I used to cut myself fairly frequently (and deeply) when I first started shaving with the straight razor but after I got the hang of it, it doesn't happen anymore. I find the double-edge razors as safe as the disposables, with the possible exceptions being when I need to remove them to replace with a new one or when stropping them.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
I have a friend, my age, who's been into ham radio since the mid 1960s. He insists that things were better -- and more fun -- when he made his own transcievers and antennae.
With a manual camera, I know that the instrument will do exactly what I ask of it. Can't say the same for a digital camera. Blighters have "minds" of their own, which can make them do things I do not want.
With a manual camera, I know that the instrument will do exactly what I ask of it. Can't say the same for a digital camera. Blighters have "minds" of their own, which can make them do things I do not want.
oftheherd
Veteran
I really like my auto-nothing folders, my Super Press 23, and am growing more fond of my Kiev all the time. But I still use my Sony P&S digital, my Yashica FX 103 with 3 zooms from 18mm to 150mm, and a few other cameras that I have. And I'm certainly not giving up my ST 801/901 and Fujinon lenses. I like all types of cameras I have, depending on what I want to photograph, or the mood I am in.
It is often satisfying to use the all manual cameras and a light meter, but I am not married to them.
It is often satisfying to use the all manual cameras and a light meter, but I am not married to them.
CorreCaminos
CorreCaminos
I agree 100%. I like to know exactly what's being metered and what's being focused on. When I use one of my mechanical, meterless cameras and then develop the film, I feel like I'm in total control and completely submerged in the process. Just a couple of days ago I thought of a very organic analogy; it's like a gardener getting their hands in the ground to make a hole for a new plant, then covering the roots with top-soil and watering the plant until established. Most of your senses are involved in the process and the final product is very much yours.
I too am a computer programmer and love high-tech gadgets but I prefer procedural programming over the prevalent object-oriented techniques. I rather write my own code than use someone else's.
However, I'm not distrustful person by nature as the above might imply. I just like to understand what's going on and only take credit for the things I myself have done. That's why I usually chuckle when someone shows me the last and greatest picture they took with their new whiz-bang camera.
jwhitley
Established
IMO, a big part of the equation for manual camera use is simply dedication. Using a fully manual camera in this era is a minor act of dedication, because doing it in a successful way requires that the user apprehend the available controls and how they relate to picture taking. Consider that the bottom few rungs of DSLR cameras come configured out of the box for a point-and-shoot experience. Anyone who cares to move beyond that use of a camera meets a significant hurdle of commitment. It used to be compulsory to learn the ins and outs of aperture, shutter speed, etc. to take photos... but not anymore. New technology separates those who are out only for "functional" photographs (snapshots, etc.) from those with various manners of deeper interest.
I pose that this "deeper interest" varies widely, from technical to creative/artistic motives. As such, I don't think that it's apt to peg the use of fully manual cameras to any type of person. Using myself as an example of someone with a technical bent, I got a DSLR as my first "serious" camera.. and quickly learned the details to gain more creative control (tip of the hat to nightfly). Using a photographer of my acquiaintance as another example, he has a decades-long creative and artistic background in various media but (until recently) little technical photographic knowledge. Yet he's already done significant gallery-shown photographic work, frequently by burning film like nobody's business (photography by trial and error, and error, and error!). We were in a class together recently.. but came there by very different paths -- my technical bent led me to explore the creative aspects of photography, while his need to direct his photographic artistic vision led him to seek greater control of that process.
That said, this dedication also has little to do with manual camera use or otherwise -- manual cameras are just one choice of tool for photographic work. Some folks will use dSLRs (or large format, or video, or a photocopier, or ...) because those are simply better tools to capture their vision.
I pose that this "deeper interest" varies widely, from technical to creative/artistic motives. As such, I don't think that it's apt to peg the use of fully manual cameras to any type of person. Using myself as an example of someone with a technical bent, I got a DSLR as my first "serious" camera.. and quickly learned the details to gain more creative control (tip of the hat to nightfly). Using a photographer of my acquiaintance as another example, he has a decades-long creative and artistic background in various media but (until recently) little technical photographic knowledge. Yet he's already done significant gallery-shown photographic work, frequently by burning film like nobody's business (photography by trial and error, and error, and error!). We were in a class together recently.. but came there by very different paths -- my technical bent led me to explore the creative aspects of photography, while his need to direct his photographic artistic vision led him to seek greater control of that process.
That said, this dedication also has little to do with manual camera use or otherwise -- manual cameras are just one choice of tool for photographic work. Some folks will use dSLRs (or large format, or video, or a photocopier, or ...) because those are simply better tools to capture their vision.
nightfly
Well-known
I'm not sure it's dedication in the sense of martyrdom (know you didn't mean it that way but it sounds like dedication for dedications sake) as much as trying to get what you want in the most direct way possible.
I use a manual camera so I can strip away all the layers of stuff trying to get between me and my photo. To me it would take more dedication to RTFM (read the f*cking manual) of something digital than it does to get it I want on film through trial and error. Even a meter assumes you want a certain % grey which isn't necessarily the case hence all the fancy metering options on more sophisticated cameras and techniques for locking exposure and move the camera to the subject you want.
In an effort to get the best results for the "average" user, we put a lot between the user and the image in modern cameras. The camera designers encode a lot of assumptions in their settings.
My use of manual cameras is intended to strip away all that.
Aperture, shutter speed and film speed. It ain't rocket science.
I use a manual camera so I can strip away all the layers of stuff trying to get between me and my photo. To me it would take more dedication to RTFM (read the f*cking manual) of something digital than it does to get it I want on film through trial and error. Even a meter assumes you want a certain % grey which isn't necessarily the case hence all the fancy metering options on more sophisticated cameras and techniques for locking exposure and move the camera to the subject you want.
In an effort to get the best results for the "average" user, we put a lot between the user and the image in modern cameras. The camera designers encode a lot of assumptions in their settings.
My use of manual cameras is intended to strip away all that.
Aperture, shutter speed and film speed. It ain't rocket science.
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Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I'm a simple guy; I never knew anyone with a complicated life that was happy; and sometimes I wonder why I live in NYC.
Although I am a Cyclotron Engineer and have worked in physics labs all my life, I dislike technology, but I tend to embrace older technology and design that still endures today.
Like Leica cameras; Nikon F3HP and F3P SLR's; single-ended triode tube stereo; mechanical watches....Less is more.
All I need is a few nice things, and I try to limit my Leica kit to one body and two lenses, but it is very hard to do with this forum.
Cal
Although I am a Cyclotron Engineer and have worked in physics labs all my life, I dislike technology, but I tend to embrace older technology and design that still endures today.
Like Leica cameras; Nikon F3HP and F3P SLR's; single-ended triode tube stereo; mechanical watches....Less is more.
All I need is a few nice things, and I try to limit my Leica kit to one body and two lenses, but it is very hard to do with this forum.
Cal
Schlapp
Well-known
Maybe its the sort of person who reads; Affluenza; the all consuming epidemic. An excellent read and yes, I do prefer manual cameras
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
I share the attitude that oftheherd has put into words. All I want is decent pictures, and I choose the camera that is most likely to give them. If I don't have the choice I try to make the best of a bad job: both my cameras have their limitations.
phc
Paul Hardy Carter
An automatic camera doesn't know what you want to do, can't anticipate your intentions.
I agree with most people here - I hate things that think they know what I want better than I do. If I leave a switch in a certain position because it needs to be that way I tend to get very angry when I find something else - machine or software - has changed it without asking me.
This reminds me of a recent battle with MS Word, a work of the devil that, thankfully, I haven't had to use for years, preferring TextEdit. Someone sent me a file to translate for them and, my God, what a fight ensued! The software seemed to deliberately try to make things harder than they should be, changing things - like fonts - totally wilfully. If I can live the rest of my life without using another Microsoft product I will be a much happier man.
Cheers, P.
I agree with most people here - I hate things that think they know what I want better than I do. If I leave a switch in a certain position because it needs to be that way I tend to get very angry when I find something else - machine or software - has changed it without asking me.
This reminds me of a recent battle with MS Word, a work of the devil that, thankfully, I haven't had to use for years, preferring TextEdit. Someone sent me a file to translate for them and, my God, what a fight ensued! The software seemed to deliberately try to make things harder than they should be, changing things - like fonts - totally wilfully. If I can live the rest of my life without using another Microsoft product I will be a much happier man.
Cheers, P.
merlin
Established
Is a certain type of person drawn to a fully manual camera?
Being anal certainly helps.
Being anal certainly helps.
bmattock
Veteran
Welcome to the fun world of online discussion, where we classify ourselves into ever-smaller boxes, and then insist that anyone not in that same tiny pigeonhole with us is 'wrong', or at the very least, 'not like us'. If we find ourselves in rare agreement about anything, it is time to redraw the lines even more tightly, so that the group of 'us' ('us' being the smart ones, the 'real photographers') never becomes more than just a few.
It must be some inner desire that humans possess to create an us-vs-them mentality out of everything. Coke and Pepsi, Ford and Chevy, Canon and Nikon, Film and Digital, Auto-Exposure and Manual Exposure, and etc.
Creatures which overspecialize become extinct when the world changes and they've lost the ability to adapt.
It must be some inner desire that humans possess to create an us-vs-them mentality out of everything. Coke and Pepsi, Ford and Chevy, Canon and Nikon, Film and Digital, Auto-Exposure and Manual Exposure, and etc.
Creatures which overspecialize become extinct when the world changes and they've lost the ability to adapt.
Ruvy
Established
After some year in front of a computer work I am back in hand drawing, I let the kids operate all remote control and so is the case nearly in everything that electronics took over... I have had a totally different outlook when these things were new and I wanted to have them and was always ready with the exact reason why I desperately need them.... In retrospect, none were essential to my life except the need of a toy which at 63 is still a serious driving force in my life - but its different. Is it the essence of the new toy or the space in my life - than there were more years to look ahead - now perhaps past years are something to long for.
To be honest, I am in total disagreement with anything that have been said here about digital cameras. When I see things right, images will be equally worthy with an M6 and my DSLR (I shoot it fully manual when time is available and progrmed when there is no time). Manual camera are a great attraction for me for their simplicity, sentimental value and character but both have room in my life but than again, I have collected manual cameras throughout most of my adult life - always had only one that I needed to do actual shooting.
To be honest, I am in total disagreement with anything that have been said here about digital cameras. When I see things right, images will be equally worthy with an M6 and my DSLR (I shoot it fully manual when time is available and progrmed when there is no time). Manual camera are a great attraction for me for their simplicity, sentimental value and character but both have room in my life but than again, I have collected manual cameras throughout most of my adult life - always had only one that I needed to do actual shooting.
biomed
Veteran
Well said! My photography is for my own enjoyment. I use a number of cameras - it just depends what I feel like using or what I happen to have with me. I currently scan my film and use a computer for cropping and "image correction", not unlike when I cropped, dodged, burned in a wet dark room. The one thing I really miss from the wet dark room is the magic of the image appearing. I enjoy the ability to stop in the middle of things with the digital dark room. It irks me when I hear that using software is not pure photography and that the image should only be made in the camera and not with a computer. Have these individuals not manipulated an image when making a print or are all of their images printed full frame without any cropping or corrections? Hey, if that is what you enjoy doing, then great. Don't put others down if they use a full auto whatever or digitally process their images. I have always felt that this forum is a place where people with an interest in rangefinder cameras can make friends and learn from each other. The main thing, IMHO, is to enjoy photography.
The opinions expressed in this posting are my own and not necessarily right or wrong and are not meant to offend anyone personally. I am still waiting for a fully automatic digital full frame camera that will read my mind and create the image the way my eye sees it. It would also be able to brew the perfect coffee drink (Seattle option).
minoltist7
pussy photographer
Yes, certain type of persons. They sometimes called "freaks" or "geeks" .
aniMal
Well-known
Well, I might then perhaps dig a small hole for just myself! Or, if someone else here have the same qualifications, I would gladly have your company...
Firstly; it is really always about the image. But the way we reach that image is of course different! I use dSLRs for commercial work, and my M8 for both commercial and private work.
I cannot deny that I am in the manual "hole", I have always driven classic cars, and also trams... This is where I dig my own hole!
I used to be a tram driver for some years, from 96-99 here in Oslo. I was among the last ones getting the license to drive the old, manual trams. They were from 52, but the design was essentially pre war...
You might have guessed it, I ended up loving it... It was really hard to learn how to drive smoothly, with both electrical brakes and airbrakes on the last setting on the command wheel. The trick then was to make a nip into the last setting and then out - and in again. With really good timing this made for a smoooth stop... Just this detail took a few months to learn...
And then driving this thing, with a trailer, in city traffic... 30 tons or more, and going straight ahead... These old ones were so worn out that they also were individuals, I remember number 235 was the ideal. The rumours were that the command system (manual, electric switching-system) had been been tuned by the last foreman who really knew how to do it just before he retired...
It was also really hard, physical work to drive it - but after a while I got used to it. And then after a while I started going as fast as with the modern ones... Keeping the timetable actually, which most of the new guys never were really able to.
So, my hole is for M-photographers who also enjoy driving manual trams!
Its many years since I started believing that "manuality" has a value on its own, and whenever I can I opt for something that I can override or tweak when necessary.
Like my macbook - I use it like out of the box/automatic 99.9% of the time - but still love the fact that I can start the terminal when necessary...
Tomorrow I will have a look at an M6TTL that I might just buy - having that alongside my M8 in a bag is near perfection to me...
icebear
Veteran
Definately a "know your basics" kind of guy will get the hang of it easier and is more likely to stick with it until the honeymoon is over and longer.
I hate any programs or applications that "suggest" anything to me. Predictive text in my 6 year old cell phone, auto spell check as I type, browser suggestions in google etc. -all shut off. I like to make the decision with my intentions and my idea about whatever I do. A manual camera doesn't interfere with that.
The more convenience driven consumer going for the latest tool that makes everything in life so easy that you just have to sit there and breathe until you are dead. Avoiding any manual work, having machines for everything and going in a sticky gym because of lack of exercise. Complaining about lack of ability to properly form a sentence or communicate person to person in a Microsoft world - that are consequences of today's auto-everything driven marketing hype.
Choosing deliberately to go manual is kind of silent rebellion against this trend. Long live La Revolution !
bmattock
Veteran
Well, I might then perhaps dig a small hole for just myself! Or, if someone else here have the same qualifications, I would gladly have your company...
My point was not intended for people who have preferences - we all have preferences. My point was for people who have preferences and announce to all and sundry that their preferences are the 'right' preferences - the implication being that if you do not do it the way they think is best, you're not doing it right.
aniMal
Well-known
Sorry, I just could not resist to make a pun on what you wrote...
I think it is all too easy to exchange what is best for oneself - and what might be best for others... It is something one has to be aware of in oneself all the time.
When it comes to my own, manual hole, I quite like it in here I dont mind getting company, and I dont mind that there are others who stay in other holes!
Then, on the other hand, sometimes other people ask me why I stay in that ****ty old, manual hole... Then is the time to stand my own ground - hopefully with humour!
I think it is all too easy to exchange what is best for oneself - and what might be best for others... It is something one has to be aware of in oneself all the time.
When it comes to my own, manual hole, I quite like it in here
I dont mind getting company, and I dont mind that there are others who stay in other holes!Then, on the other hand, sometimes other people ask me why I stay in that ****ty old, manual hole... Then is the time to stand my own ground - hopefully with humour!
literiter
Well-known
I asked my wife this, in a circuitous way. She said that she believed only a madman would love old manual cameras. Then she winked at me.
I've been found out!
I've been found out!