Is all the excitement rational?

[NIKON KIU]

Don't believe all the "I am buying" claims around here, every new product seems to bring such claims around here.
The original post does have over 47000 views though, seems to be of great interest to RFF'ers.

Kiu

 

[ferider]

Like Kiu said. Think about M8, CV 35/1.4 and 50/1.1, and their treatment on RFF. Given all the initial excitement it can only go downhill from here🙂

Maybe all Fuji is doing is motivating Nikon to finally build that full frame DRF with overlayed EVF and optical VF 🙂

 

[jbielikowski]

yeah! lets buy something!



some film perhaps?
I was excited when I saw it on dpreview.com. anybody know how to soup SD 32GB in ID-11 1+3? after all its just another digital gizmo.

 

[Frankie]

For manual focusing- I'm thinking Frankie's suggestion of a live-view magnified "focus patch" in the viewfinder would be easy to implement. Read out the center portion of the sensor, put on the center of the hybrid finder, and use it for manual focus. Easier to do than an RF Cam. You would see the in-focus image through the optical viewfinder, and the image as seen on the sensor. Focus and frame at the same time. A little extra lag to close down the shutter and then tape the picture, like on an EP2.

In one of my/our many digital photogrammetry software products is a feature called dSIM (dynamic Synthetic Image Model). Essentially we inject image parallax based on the geometry between a 2D image to the corresponding 3D terrain model (or 3D real world scene)...all in real-time; and we deal we humongous image files.

To process say 1/5 of the EVF FoV as a digital RF patch is faster than real-time.

What do you say to a choice of the equivalent of a micro-prism patch, a split image patch, a fussy than suddenly clear patch...sort of like interchangeable focusing aids.

I was not kidding when I suggested that Fuji should establish an APP community.

 

[sevres_babylone]

Maybe all Fuji is doing is motivating Nikon to finally build that full frame DRF with overlayed EVF and optical VF 🙂

The one that will take M-mount lenses, so Nikon won't have to go the trouble of manufacturing and selling lenses for it 🙂

 

[former member]

To process say 1/5 of the EVF FoV as a digital RF patch is faster than real-time.

.

By latency- I meant the increased shutter lag required of a Liveview camera. The shutter is open while liveview is operating. It has to close and then re-open when the release is pressed. The latency is slightly longer than starting in the closed position. I guess if the AF uses contrast-detection off of the main CMOS sensor, the shutter has to be open anyway. So no increase latency for the overlay.

 

[btgc]

I remember boiling when pictures of Mazda6 (Atenza in it's homeland Japan) appeared on webs - people raved how great car it will be, similar with what happens now with X100. When actual cars appeared in dealerships, some people bought them, some decided to go for new Honda Accord. Same will happen with X100. There's nothing new under sun 🙂

 

[ferider]

The one that will take M-mount lenses, so Nikon won't have to go the trouble of manufacturing and selling lenses for it 🙂

If they start mass producing the S-mount 50/1.4 and 35/1.8 Olympic re-editions, that's good enough for me 🙂 Better than a fixed lens camera anyways.

Note that I like the Fuji announcement, and can see myself using it, much like the Hexar AF in the past. Not excited enough to start saving though. 6 months is a long time. Very excited about the new viewfinder however.

Roland.

 

[former member]

They can do S-Mount with backwards M-Mount compatibility.

Basically, just make a matched S-Mount adapter for it, all is forgiven. The Weenies.

 

[DougFord]

Who needs to ‘see’ a center patch come into focus?
Perhaps as a psychological crutch or for those whom rely on their eyes to determine focus.
But for those of us with old eyes, not so much.
A reliable accurate phase detect pixel system that includes a center patch demarcation symbolizing the focus area and a focus confirmation LED telling me when the phase detect system has determined precise alignment of the light rays within this area, is ideal.
Switch to the EVF if you want to rely on your eyes to determine focus by watching the transition from blurry to clear.
Or, as others have suggested, project the center patch of the EVF onto the OVF if you want to see the focus transition.
The issue with this concept is that the projected center patch from the EVF would be too small, making it even more difficult to determine focus. You’d need to magnify it, so you might as well just use the EVF instead.
[FONT=&quot](I’m assuming that Fuji will implement their PDAF as well as the generic CDAF found in other mirrorless camera systems.)[/FONT]

 

[Phantomas]

 

[Frankie]

I tend to agree to DougFord at Post 30.

My likely MO in using the X100 is to use AF-C and AE-shutter most of the time. The 23/~35mm lens will have enough DoF from 5.6 onward.

I would use the OVF most of the time, and for critical shots switch into EVF to bracket the focusing...just in case. Film is free...no? 😀

Us aging yuppies with matured eyesights, and even 20/20 in my case, could use all the help we can get.

 

[Phantomas]

I've played VERY briefly with the camera, and since it's only a half working prototype tried to only check the viewfinder (also still a prototype). From how I saw and imagined it working in real-time is that optical viewfinder pretty much lets you do and see everything - focus patch (yes, weirdly enough it's a patch), shooting info (aperture, shutter, and other is quite comfortably displayed). As I understood electronic viewfinder is mostly to view your shots for how the final exposure would look and I can imagine one would be able to live without it completely (I donno, there was a standard pre-set image popping up everytime I switched to electro).
The rest feels like a better Olympus to me (which I dislike and have not much experience with) - better controls, awesomeness of aperture control on the lens and of course a very decent viewfinder.

 

[ampguy]

so how does the patch work?

so how does the patch work?

how does the optical focus patch work, if there is no rf, and it is not through the lens?

I hope the lens doesn't have focus shift, or one will have to stick with only evf, at certain apertures.

A 24mm lens, focuses to 10cm, f2. fixed. With nice bokeh, and an aspherical element. Hmmm. This will be interesting.

I've played VERY briefly with the camera, and since it's only a half working prototype tried to only check the viewfinder (also still a prototype). From how I saw and imagined it working in real-time is that optical viewfinder pretty much lets you do and see everything - focus patch (yes, weirdly enough it's a patch), shooting info (aperture, shutter, and other is quite comfortably displayed). As I understood electronic viewfinder is mostly to view your shots for how the final exposure would look and I can imagine one would be able to live without it completely (I donno, there was a standard pre-set image popping up everytime I switched to electro).
The rest feels like a better Olympus to me (which I dislike and have not much experience with) - better controls, awesomeness of aperture control on the lens and of course a very decent viewfinder.

 

[jfretless]

What's got me excited is the potential of the image quality. Considering that the last APS-C sensor Fuji built was for the S5 Pro, which was five years ago, and is STILL in the top five in regards to dynamic range, according to DxO labs. ...might even be top three, behind the D700 and D3. The S5 Pro has a cult following and still commands a decent resale value. So, to me, worse case, the x100 has the same Super CCD sensor as the S5 Pro (which it won't), I would buy one in a heart beat. ...add to that, five years of technology advancements, benefits of using a CMOS sensor instead of CCD. ...I just can't wait to see samples.

I just hope the AF is fast enough.

John

 

[Phantomas]

how does the optical focus patch work, if there is no rf, and it is not through the lens?

I hope the lens doesn't have focus shift, or one will have to stick with only evf, at certain apertures.

A 24mm lens, focuses to 10cm, f2. fixed. With nice bokeh, and an aspherical element. Hmmm. This will be interesting.

I believe the patch indicates the AF area. Focus fine-tuning is not possible, you'll have to switch to MF mode on the side of the camera. However - and here my memory might be blurred as the couple of minutes I spent with the camera were accompanied by confusion about what works and what not - I believe I've noticed distance scale in the viewfinder which moves when you operate the lens in MF and gives some sort of confirmation when your subject (in the patch) is in focus. I might be wrong and imagining this. But if I'm right than this could be a freaky modern interpretation of a rangefinder - you still get focus confirmation just not with RF patches.

 

[ampguy]

cool, thanks

cool, thanks

that might work, but I wonder why a patch instead of tiny circles or rectangles in case you have side by side high contrast areas where just to the L is close up, and to the R is very far, seems it would be nice to have a small indicator tell you precisely where the AF was in that scenario.

So MF mode is EVF only, right? (or electronic scale overlayed on the OVF?)

I believe the patch indicates the AF area. Focus fine-tuning is not possible, you'll have to switch to MF mode on the side of the camera. However - and here my memory might be blurred as the couple of minutes I spent with the camera were accompanied by confusion about what works and what not - I believe I've noticed distance scale in the viewfinder which moves when you operate the lens and gives some sort of confirmation when your subject (in the patch) is in focus. I might be wrong and imagining this. But if I'm right than this could be a freaky modern interpretation of a rangefinder - you still get focus confirmation just not with RF patches.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Rational? Not really. Not at the level being seen, anyway. Take away the innovative viewfinder, which overcomes many of the frustrations of recent digital camera designs, and it's a pretty unremarkable design with an undoubtedly good fixed lens. The viewfinder technology can, in time, be acquired by copy, design or licencing by other manufacturers and we can expect other cameras with similar viewfinders and other desirable features to appear. My prediction is we'll see some by by the end of 2011. So the X100 will have the same limited life and cost erosion seen in all digital camera designs, I think.
Also, Fuji have a track record of introducing innovative cameras with fixed (and good) lenses but ceasing production of them after a time. I'm expecting the Bessa III/GF670 to go the same way before long. All those waiting for the flood of cheap 'users' coming onto the market might be left empty handed. Fuji may change their policy at some stage but right now, this stage - the X100 - would have been a good time to make that change and they haven't, so I'm not holding my breath. A lot of posters have held forth at length about what they'd LIKE Fuji to do but that's a whole lot different to Fuji adopting a new marketing/production paradigm. Wishing and hoping won't get it! My guess is that they'll make it the way they want to make it and have designed it, and then stop making it after a year or two when the market moves on. And there's no guarantee, based on past performance, that they'll replace it with an updated model.

The other thing that's not entirely rational is the intense level of speculation, advice, flaming and fury over technical features, affordability and other assorted posts that seem to appear in RFF whenever something new and interesting is announced. I refer again to the introduction of the Bessa III when a similar thing happened. We seem to bring out the worst in each other and the level of rancour and abuse that passes between some members departs a long way from the item under discussion and assumes a life of its own. (And my own hands aren't altogether clean on this issue, before anyone reminds me!)

We're a very opinionated lot, and sometimes we need to be reminded that our own truth is not necessarily everyone else's truth and that what is self-evident to us is mere puffery and pontificating to others.

 

[Phantomas]

that might work, but I wonder why a patch instead of tiny circles or rectangles in case you have side by side high contrast areas where just to the L is close up, and to the R is very far, seems it would be nice to have a small indicator tell you precisely where the AF was in that scenario.

So MF mode is EVF only, right? (or electronic scale overlayed on the OVF?)

I'm wondering this too (the camera was shown to me by a nice and fairly initiated girl, just not initiated this deeply into detail). The patch is contrasty not dissimilar to RF (that punched me right in the eye when I first had a look). It is not like little focus squire you see on P&S (even the film ones). I wonder what function it serves other than making me feel a bit more at home when I look through it 🙂
I wish someone else from Photokina would chime in about their perception of behavior of that patch.

 

[Phantomas]

So MF mode is EVF only, right? (or electronic scale overlayed on the OVF?)

No. You see all such info in optical VF (and fairly discretely).