Sparrow
Veteran
... strange but true, the canvas was finished before the bombing took place he just added the airplane and called it Guernica when he showed it
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
It seems you're declaring, in your opinion, photojournalism can't ever -in any way- include any kind of creation...
If you were right about that, there wouldn't be any difference between a great photojournalist and a surveillance camera.
Cheers,
Juan
starless
Well-known
Well first, surveillance footage is not a creative work, so I don't know why you mentioned that.
Second, I don't think we will be able to solve the age-long debate what is Art, so there is not point arguing about it here.
Second, I don't think we will be able to solve the age-long debate what is Art, so there is not point arguing about it here.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
"Professional" photojournalism has simply become devalued. Newspapers are strapped financially and will accept any semi-recognizable photo of an event for publication if it is free. And there are plenty folks offering photos to newspapers for free.
As for the Art part, I've never been comfortable with photography defined as art. But, I think it's simply a matter of definition. Call it what you like, I guess. I own photos by artists because I like the content of the photo, not as some artifact.
I've always personally objected to the title "artist." I consider myself a technician, having learned how to pull the rabbit out of the hat.
As for the Art part, I've never been comfortable with photography defined as art. But, I think it's simply a matter of definition. Call it what you like, I guess. I own photos by artists because I like the content of the photo, not as some artifact.
I've always personally objected to the title "artist." I consider myself a technician, having learned how to pull the rabbit out of the hat.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, first you can't prove it, because there have been opinions on both sides for well over a century, and second, as has already been pointed out, museums are quite a long way from being the arbiters of anything very much, except what goes in museums...
Cheers,
R.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
gdmcclintock
Well-known
And a very good one!
gdmcclintock
Well-known
Art cannot be objective and unpassionate (sic)? A visit to some NYC galleries may change your mind!
gns
Well-known
I don't worry too much about labels and pigeonholes. If the photos are good, I don't care how the photographer arranged for the time and money to make them, or what he calls himself.
I'm sure that sometimes, the tags photographers apply to themselves, or that others apply to them, can be of some (limited) use. But I also think they can account for more confusion than clarification or explanation.
Gary
I'm sure that sometimes, the tags photographers apply to themselves, or that others apply to them, can be of some (limited) use. But I also think they can account for more confusion than clarification or explanation.
Gary
slm
Formerly nextreme
pho·to·jour·nal·ism
noun /ˌfōtōˈjərnəˌlizəm/
The art or practice of communicating news by photographs, esp. in magazines
Web definitions
journalism that presents a story primarily through the use of pictures
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Photojournalism is a particular form of journalism (the collecting, editing, and presenting of news material for publication or broadcast) that creates images in order to tell a news story. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photojournalism
and so on (from our friend google).
----------------------
Could it not simply be a matter of great photojournalism pictures that have been taken (and will be taken) where the content moves us much like the way art can moves us, or makes us think, so we consider it the same as art ? (I'm asking here...)
Cheers
noun /ˌfōtōˈjərnəˌlizəm/
The art or practice of communicating news by photographs, esp. in magazines
Web definitions
journalism that presents a story primarily through the use of pictures
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Photojournalism is a particular form of journalism (the collecting, editing, and presenting of news material for publication or broadcast) that creates images in order to tell a news story. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photojournalism
and so on (from our friend google).
----------------------
Could it not simply be a matter of great photojournalism pictures that have been taken (and will be taken) where the content moves us much like the way art can moves us, or makes us think, so we consider it the same as art ? (I'm asking here...)
Cheers
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You take pictures because you want to/have to.
Everything else is marketing.
I have a lot more respect for people who suss the marketing than for people who try to force anyone's photography into such categories as 'fine art', 'photojournalism' or anything else.
GET THE PICTURES OUT THERE. Then, preferably, earn some money from it so you can afford to take some more.
What else does anyone think was the founding principle of Magnum?
Cheers,
R.
Everything else is marketing.
I have a lot more respect for people who suss the marketing than for people who try to force anyone's photography into such categories as 'fine art', 'photojournalism' or anything else.
GET THE PICTURES OUT THERE. Then, preferably, earn some money from it so you can afford to take some more.
What else does anyone think was the founding principle of Magnum?
Cheers,
R.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
As a professional photojournalist? Is there anything in the school of photography or journalism (which comprise photojournalism) that forbids being an artist? Journalists play with words all the time. Photographers play with composition and the application of their gear.
In my extremely unhumble opinion, a photographer, or journalist, or photojournalist, who does not have the intellectual capacity to balance expression with reporting and/or make educated guesses as to where the thin lines are, they may just not be up to snuff.
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
Hmm... "Verkünsteln" doesn't exist in my German. I hereby declare it local dialect or probably slang and decidedly not commonly understood.
(Tom, please, no hard feelings. Where do you live/come from? Where is 'verkünsteln' common?)
What Tom describes would be "sich verzetteln" in my version of the German language. A "Zettel" is a piece of paper; "verzetteln" is like getting lost in one's own notes. It's got nothing to do with Kunst/art (apart from paper being a possible medium for some arts).
I'm sorry for veering way off topic. Feel free to explain the English language to me.
efirmage
Established
I'll admit to not having read the entire thread before this.
But Alec Soth's induction to Magnum represents to me a shift towards the art in photojournalism. Up until lately, photography was still a craft that needed a specialist to do it. Still true to some degree. But many photos now hitting the front pages are sent in my every day people, on their cell phone or P&S? Anyone with a camera, which is now everyone, is a photojournalist. Soon even a point and shoot camera will be only for the "enthusiast" as everyone will just use their cellphones as technology improves.
To protect themselves, photojournalists have to push themselves to create images that are beyond what is just pure representation of events. This, in my mind, makes them more and more artists, rather than journalists.
But Alec Soth's induction to Magnum represents to me a shift towards the art in photojournalism. Up until lately, photography was still a craft that needed a specialist to do it. Still true to some degree. But many photos now hitting the front pages are sent in my every day people, on their cell phone or P&S? Anyone with a camera, which is now everyone, is a photojournalist. Soon even a point and shoot camera will be only for the "enthusiast" as everyone will just use their cellphones as technology improves.
To protect themselves, photojournalists have to push themselves to create images that are beyond what is just pure representation of events. This, in my mind, makes them more and more artists, rather than journalists.
emraphoto
Veteran
Gary, forgive me for saying so but the photographer does care about where support, including money, comea from. With a bit of extrapolation one will quickly arrive at my question.
Outside of a very select, top tier group, the rest of us have to work very hard at defining or branding ourselves. This is crucial in moving forward with long term documentary work.
Perhaps you are the most hot shot photojournalist this side of the Poconos. Tear sheets to cover the waterbed. Without a well crafted CV, exhibition history and at least 1 complete and cohesive body of work the shift (to long term documentary work) is going to be VERY difficult. The terms matter then most here realize.
There is a reason many of these folks/photographers are openly aligning themselves with the 'art' market. It may very well be a select few have 'heard the calling to art' but i suspect for many it is a calculated move.
A very good, rather famous photographer/photojournalist/artist once offered me advice akin to 'rebranding as an artist' and it was the single most effective move i made to keep me working. We had been drinking heavily and i am mot sure he would remember though.
emraphoto
Veteran
Forgive spelling and such, iphone apparently has a liking for making me appear as a grade school drop out.
emraphoto
Veteran
gns
Well-known
I agree with all of that. If a photographer expects to make a living from his work, he certainly has to do some marketing or have someone do it for him. And I guess he has to sell through the markets available.
My post was more in response to some other comments along the lines of, "Photographers should call themselves photographers and not artists, etc."
Cheers,
Gary