Is double-x still available, Cinestill "makes it"

[znapper]

Hi

I was recently mucking around in the online shops in my city and saw that Cinestill is offering double-x in 135 as well as in 120.

What gives? Wasn't this film discontinued ages ago?
Apparently, this film was the forerunner to Plus-x (or I may be wrong) and seems to be really "old school" in many ways.

How is it that this film is still available? Does Cinestill posess some outdated stock?
Seems weird if they create a whole new lineup and sell some really old expired stock, or can it be repackaged movie-stock which for some reason is still produced by Kodak?

Has anyone tried this film (from Cinestill)?

Would be very interested in trying it out in 120, but that price is just nauseating (€22 per 120 roll in the stores here)

 

[Nokton48]

It's Eastman movie stock, they sell it in 400 foot and thousand foot rolls. I have been buying it from Eastman in NYC, have a few 400' cans in the freezer. Hollywood cine Guys burn millions of feet of this stuff. BTW it's been available since 1958!

https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/EASTMAN-DOUBLE-X-Negative-Film-datasheet-US-180924-EN.pdf

 

[znapper]

Thanks for the information, I was not aware of that.
But, for 120, is that possible to get in 400' rolls too?
How the heck do you bulk-load 120 film? (difficult enough to do with 135mm 😀 )

 

[Freakscene]

It is Eastman 5222 XX, not Super-XX. It was not the forerunner to Plus-X. That was Eastman Plus-X, a motion picture film rated at ASA 50 in 1938. It went through several iterations.

There are no 120 bulk rolls. Cinestill either bought a master roll (1.5mx1,000m or thereabouts) and cut and rolled it themselves. or had Kodak cut and roll the 5222 as 120. Kodak will do this for any film they make if the order is large enough.

Marty

 

[Saganich]

I just bought 400' from B&H last month and spooled it out. Never heard of 5222 XX in 120 though... I suppose only mfg could spool 120...I mean who has that much used backing paper lying around?

 

[Freakscene]

I just bought 400' from B&H last month and spooled it out. Never heard of 5222 XX in 120 though... I suppose only mfg could spool 120...I mean who has that much used backing paper lying around?

Backing paper is still available, as are spools. The 120 is only available from Cinestill. It’s definitely custom production, either by Cinestill or Kodak for Cinestill.

 

[Bingley]

The Film Photography Project was selling Eastman Double X (5222-X) several years ago and may still be doing so. I still have several rolls of 24 exposure in 35 mm from them. My understanding is that Cinestill developed a proprietary method of removing the remjet coating from the movie stock it acquired from Eastman/Kodak and now sells that film under its own label as Cinestill XX in both 35 and 120. It’s an interesting film - beautiful mid-tones and wide tonal range with moderate graininess. I haven’t tried it in 120 yet but have several rolls in that size. In 35mm it, along with FP4 Plus, is the closest film I’ve seen to Plus-X, though as Marty says above it’s not a forerunner of Plus-X.

 

[znapper]

I just bought 400' from B&H last month and spooled it out. Never heard of 5222 XX in 120 though... I suppose only mfg could spool 120...I mean who has that much used backing paper lying around?

Here's an example: BwXX (Double-X) Black and White Negative Film, 120
Then again, I wonder how the removal of remjet (again) affect the overall contrast and if there is blooming of the highlights (I really detest that in the cinestil cine-films)

 

[Phil_F_NM]

There is no remjet on 5222, only an anti-halation layer and film lubricant.

 

[Nokton48]

Color film has remjet, B&W does not. Eastman 5222 is motion picture stock.

Exposing Eastman (Double-X) 5222 in the Leica

Hi All, I've recently become interested in shooting Kodak Double-X (Eastman 5222) motion picture film in my new early Leica M2. I know that Tom Abrahamsson, Al Kaplan, and others here have been using this film, from time to time. Here is the Kodak teaser...

www.rangefinderforum.com

I started this XX thread years ago, it's pretty long, but covers about everything you might want to know. Lots of good examples

 

[wlewisiii]

Has anyone here tried XX in Diafine?

 

[Nokton48]

Calzone is the authority on shooting XX in Diafine. It's covered in my big XX thread, if you can find it LOL. I like it in Microdol-X or more recently D23 1:1. Actually it seems to work in just about every developer.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

The XX thread is a wealth of knowledge and a time capsule as well. It's nice to see the posts of old friends there.

 

[wlewisiii]

Looks like some good info there. Honestly, I'd be more tempted if I had a decent way to scan negs at home. My local lab does a fine job but then there's the cost on top of the $12~$13 a roll for 120 format. I may have to try it in the Super Ikonta anyway though 🙂

 

[armadsen]

It's commonly believed that Cinestill doesn't remove remjet anymore, rather, they're big enough that they get Kodak to manufacturer special runs of Vision films without adding remjet in the first place. (This only applies to their color films, of course.) I've never seen solid information on whether Cinestill buys master rolls and does the final packaging themselves, or whether they just get Kodak to do it. I assume Kodak does it for them, because the machinery to do so isn't cheap or easy to come by. Either way, they sell all of their films in both 35mm and 120, and are working on making/getting 400D (aka Vision 250D) in 4x5 as well.

 

[dourbalistar]

Currently out of stock, but Film Photography Project sells 100-foot rolls of Double-X, hand rolled by FPP from 400-foot rolls from Kodak. I've purchased from them before:

35mm BW Bulk Roll (100 ft) - FPP Kodak Double-X

What is Kodak Double X? Eastman Kodak Double-X 5222 is a film made for motion picture cameras and is used by Hollywood cinematographers for films like Schindler's List and Casino Royale. iso 200 / process: Standard BW For bulk film loaders that accept 100 ft rolls of filmPlease note that our...

filmphotographystore.com

 

[titrisol]

I just bought a 100ft cut from a 2022 batch (from another user)
DoubleX is a very nice all purpose film and the watt-loader loves it.

Has anybody done reversal-process on DoubleX?

 

[Phil_F_NM]

5222 tends to get really blocky with the shadows and highlights, almost like an orthochromatic film, if you expose it as a negative at box rated speed (200-250) then develop for a positive. If you cut the speed by half or more, and expose between 80-100, you’ll find you have more midtones but you’ll still have a lot of grain in your final image. This is why we have reversal Tri-X (for motion picture).
Phil Forrest

 

[Bingley]

There is no remjet on 5222, only an anti-halation layer and film lubricant.

I stand corrected on the remjet issue. Cinestill’s FAQ confirms that Cinestill films do not have a remjet layer. It’s not clear whether Cinestill acquires the motion picture stock w/ the remjet already removed.

I experimented a lot last year w/ Cinestill XX developed in D96 Monobath. Results were mixed and the temperature of the developer seemed to be pretty important (my best results came from developing at 21-22 C rather than 20C). Yes, Cinestill XX can be pretty grainy.

 

[Mackinaw]

I stand corrected on the remjet issue. Cinestill’s FAQ confirms that Cinestill films do not have a remjet layer. It’s not clear whether Cinestill acquires the motion picture stock w/ the remjet already removed.

5222-XX leaves the factory without a remjet layer. Ditto with motion picture Tri-X. Only the ECN-2 color films have a remjet coating.

Jim B.