Ansel
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zzzzzzzzzzz
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Is Film Dying Again ?
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Tony Whitney
Well-known
Is film dying?
Not in my house it isn't - nor will it, until the last roll on the planet has been exposed. Come to think of it, my 26-year-old 'high tech' son is just getting into it - enlarger and all! TW
Not in my house it isn't - nor will it, until the last roll on the planet has been exposed. Come to think of it, my 26-year-old 'high tech' son is just getting into it - enlarger and all! TW
Vics
Veteran
Gotta go. My M3 is whining to go for a walk. FP4+ today.
Aristophanes
Well-known
Film's survival will depend entirely on:
1) Labs. Only they can process industrial amounts that roll film produces. Roll film production has cannot be reduced to amounts sustainable only by home developing.
2) Cinema. Pray and hope enough directors continue to shoot in film. Just shooting burns through thousands of times more emulsion than all roll film worldwide combined. That's an economy of scale necessary to keep some core inputs into film (base, chemicals) affordable.
For roll film production to stabilize, costs of processing and scanning, need to affordable.
Roll film is an odd combination of an idiosyncratic art form, highly individualized in its consumption, but requiring industrial size, mass production of its key product.
1) Labs. Only they can process industrial amounts that roll film produces. Roll film production has cannot be reduced to amounts sustainable only by home developing.
2) Cinema. Pray and hope enough directors continue to shoot in film. Just shooting burns through thousands of times more emulsion than all roll film worldwide combined. That's an economy of scale necessary to keep some core inputs into film (base, chemicals) affordable.
For roll film production to stabilize, costs of processing and scanning, need to affordable.
Roll film is an odd combination of an idiosyncratic art form, highly individualized in its consumption, but requiring industrial size, mass production of its key product.
chipgreenberg
Well-known
I shoot color. I love the tones and palette I get with Ektar 100. If I was great at photoshop maybe it would look the same? I don't know.
That said, I think my world is tied to Kodak's success selling movie film. Their sales were down a bunch, 18% last quarter.
That said, I think my world is tied to Kodak's success selling movie film. Their sales were down a bunch, 18% last quarter.
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Wise words. Perhaps we should all remember them before posting.
So far as the demise of film is concerned, I suspect it's another case of "The report of my death was an exaggeration".
robert blu
quiet photographer
I have more film cameras. I have one digital (Leica x1) almost four years old which I enjoy but has some limitations. Going to buy a digital but...the proliferation of new cameras (Fuji, Olympus, Leica now!) makes difficult for me to decide. As consequence I'm now shooting more film !
robert
robert
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Ranchu
Veteran
Whatever.
"Canon especially has sold 23% fewer cameras so far in 2013 than at the same point last year. Nikon have sold 18% fewer.
Investors are taking fright. Shares in Nikon who are the most camera orientated of the big manufacturers are down the most; a 33% fall.
Sony and Fuji’s sales are down a huge 35%. Although Fuji’s X line has revitalised
interest in the brand from enthusiasts and pros, both company’s have suffered at the low and mid sections of the market."
http://www.eoshd.com/content/11409/consumer-dslrs-dead-5-years
Demand for digital is falling, and demand for 35RC's is rising? Digital is a fad.
djhurley92
Established
I think digital demand is falling because phones are getting so good no one will want a digital camera that doesn't deliver considerably high-end results (and it looks this way, as low and medium end is where the drop is). Hopefully Ilford are going to keep going, they're certainly in a good position at the moment. Unfortunately everyone says E6 will go, which I think is sad, because slide film can certainly do things C41 and digital can't do to my eyes. In a perfect world for me C41 would go (if one has to) but E6 and B&W would live 😀
Particular
Disassembler, occasional reassembler
I was confronted recently with an argumentative pensioner while I was working with my 4x5 on a sunday afternoon. He wanted to instill in me how impressed he was with 'the sharpness of digital'. I was polite, but I really wanted to say:
"GO AWAY, AND LET ME FONDLE IN PEACE!!!"
"GO AWAY, AND LET ME FONDLE IN PEACE!!!"
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Nobody wants my fully working IIf here and on-ebay for $175! Dead for sure!
Here is only two major camera stores in Toronto left with film supplies. I never seen anybody else buying where, just me and only. Always.
One store has some film and only few supplies left, second one has different papers, chemicals and stuff, but only consumer color film.
Picture taking on hobby level is shifting to Instagram and paid photography is mostly digital by now.
More and more people can't cook their own food, can't hand write, multiply and divide without calculators and even walk.
Film is something which is very difficult to them now.
Few and fewer of us left every day who isn't blind and willing to do analog b/w including wet prints.
Mass production, consumerism and globalization makes general public "simple minded" and incapable of many different skills more and more.
Film photography is more like one of those craft arts, now. Which used to be just common jobs. Haven't seen new doors made with carpentry and blacksmith for long time.
Here is only two major camera stores in Toronto left with film supplies. I never seen anybody else buying where, just me and only. Always.
One store has some film and only few supplies left, second one has different papers, chemicals and stuff, but only consumer color film.
Picture taking on hobby level is shifting to Instagram and paid photography is mostly digital by now.
More and more people can't cook their own food, can't hand write, multiply and divide without calculators and even walk.
Film is something which is very difficult to them now.
Few and fewer of us left every day who isn't blind and willing to do analog b/w including wet prints.
Mass production, consumerism and globalization makes general public "simple minded" and incapable of many different skills more and more.
Film photography is more like one of those craft arts, now. Which used to be just common jobs. Haven't seen new doors made with carpentry and blacksmith for long time.
Ranchu
Veteran
lxmike
M2 fan.
I no longer have space for a darkroom, processing in good labs expensive, grew up with film, now very much wrapped up in the Fuji X system and very happy with what I am producing at the moment. Therefore for me film is very much part of my heritage but I no longer shoot film
kshapero
South Florida Man
we have heard this before. the 20 something hipsters now think it is cool to shoot film. Film is officially only a sub culture of still photography. I am good with that.
Ranchu
Veteran
Everyone thinks it's cool to shoot film, not just 20 something hipsters.
kuzano
Veteran
Not by my experience....
Not by my experience....
I've been selling primarily film camera's on eBay for fifteen years now.
Business is better than ever. Medium Format and Large Format are increasing considerably in price over 35mm.
I put MF and LF on for a 7 day auction with a fair (but money making) Buy It Now. The auctions are NOT running full term. My last one closed an hour after it hit eBay.
Not uncommon to post 7-10 camera's at one time and have 2-3 gone by the time I finish the full complement of auctions. I have 616 positive feedbacks and growing at 100%, which is key.
Also, if you look at the enrollments in those community colleges and university campus's still offering film classes, they are often SRO.
The Community College where I teach has 3 classes, camera, film development, and a combo class running full every quarter.
I certainly don't feel threatened. For the most part my ONLY digital experience is photographing my film cameras for eBay listings.
That's not a bad thing. I use film personally.. MF and LF.
Film is not a problem. I get my film from high count Feedback sellers on eBay, with at least 99% positive feedback and high sales. Often expired but refrigerated and excellent experience with the film I am receiving.
Keeping an open mind and an eye out count for most of my happiness to continue to shoot film. I just picked up 160 envelopes of various emulsion (some NIB, but expired) of Quickload and Readyload, refrigerated, for $120 plus ship about one hundred miles. That's 75 cents a sheet for LF 4X5 film. That was a Craigslist acquisition, out of Portland Oregon.
If your having problems, your not looking in the right places. Depends on how important is IS TO YOU to continue to shoot film. Or do you just need justification to move entirely to digital.
Go ahead, we won't judge you harshly. Some people are just not equippled to stay in the fray.
It was, and is, the same with Vinyl LP records along with 78's.
The niche will survive.
Not by my experience....
I've been selling primarily film camera's on eBay for fifteen years now.
Business is better than ever. Medium Format and Large Format are increasing considerably in price over 35mm.
I put MF and LF on for a 7 day auction with a fair (but money making) Buy It Now. The auctions are NOT running full term. My last one closed an hour after it hit eBay.
Not uncommon to post 7-10 camera's at one time and have 2-3 gone by the time I finish the full complement of auctions. I have 616 positive feedbacks and growing at 100%, which is key.
Also, if you look at the enrollments in those community colleges and university campus's still offering film classes, they are often SRO.
The Community College where I teach has 3 classes, camera, film development, and a combo class running full every quarter.
I certainly don't feel threatened. For the most part my ONLY digital experience is photographing my film cameras for eBay listings.
That's not a bad thing. I use film personally.. MF and LF.
Film is not a problem. I get my film from high count Feedback sellers on eBay, with at least 99% positive feedback and high sales. Often expired but refrigerated and excellent experience with the film I am receiving.
Keeping an open mind and an eye out count for most of my happiness to continue to shoot film. I just picked up 160 envelopes of various emulsion (some NIB, but expired) of Quickload and Readyload, refrigerated, for $120 plus ship about one hundred miles. That's 75 cents a sheet for LF 4X5 film. That was a Craigslist acquisition, out of Portland Oregon.
If your having problems, your not looking in the right places. Depends on how important is IS TO YOU to continue to shoot film. Or do you just need justification to move entirely to digital.
Go ahead, we won't judge you harshly. Some people are just not equippled to stay in the fray.
It was, and is, the same with Vinyl LP records along with 78's.
The niche will survive.
kuzano
Veteran
Soooo......
Soooo......
It's not as if daylight processing occurred to you. I am having a blast processing film and prints in Folgers Instant coffee. I am soon to display some work in a local expresso/latte shop. I plan to call the series "Coffee Break Images".
Love Fuji camera's and glass, and have used the Fujifilm S2, S3 and S5 Pro. But still prefer my hulking old Texas Rangefinder GL 690. Slide a roll of that 120 roll film through some Folgers and look out Fujifilm X series.
Soooo......
It's not as if daylight processing occurred to you. I am having a blast processing film and prints in Folgers Instant coffee. I am soon to display some work in a local expresso/latte shop. I plan to call the series "Coffee Break Images".
Love Fuji camera's and glass, and have used the Fujifilm S2, S3 and S5 Pro. But still prefer my hulking old Texas Rangefinder GL 690. Slide a roll of that 120 roll film through some Folgers and look out Fujifilm X series.
goamules
Well-known
Film is becoming a niche hobby. Perhaps 5% of those who shot film 20 years ago (almost everyone) are still using it. But it's not going to die. It's more expensive to buy a roll, and to develop a roll, because of the much fewer numbers of people shooting.
100 years later, some people still ride horses, but most drive cars. Equestrian activities didn't die. They just became uncommon.
100 years later, some people still ride horses, but most drive cars. Equestrian activities didn't die. They just became uncommon.
maddoc
... likes film again.
I think this is the key-point of the entire "film-is-dead" discussion(s). Using film has become less convenient than it used to be, especially when buying/processing film. That and the acceptance level of "quality" has gone down step by step in modern society (not only regarding film) ...
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