kbg32
neo-romanticist
Kodak did more to change photography in its first 100 years then any other company. As late as 1976, Kodak commanded 90% of film sales and 85% of camera sales in the U.S. alone. This success lead to complacency, ultimately to bankruptcy. Kodak developed the first digital sensor back in the 1960s. Unfortunately its management was unimaginative and didn't know what to do with it.
Lomo?? More power to them, but they have done nothing to ultimately change photography. Marketing old products to a small niche that clamors for nostalgia and charging a heavy markup, is not making change. It is just keeping the "patient" alive. Kind of like the US healthcare system.
“There is nothing new except what is forgotten.” —Mademoiselle Bertin
I love Fuji. For me they are doing something right and seem to be on the verge of really doing something big. I hope they can follow through.
Lomo?? More power to them, but they have done nothing to ultimately change photography. Marketing old products to a small niche that clamors for nostalgia and charging a heavy markup, is not making change. It is just keeping the "patient" alive. Kind of like the US healthcare system.
“There is nothing new except what is forgotten.” —Mademoiselle Bertin
I love Fuji. For me they are doing something right and seem to be on the verge of really doing something big. I hope they can follow through.
gavinlg
Veteran
I'm 26, and my photographer and non-photographer friends range from 20-35. And I can tell you none of them are interested in the a5000 and the gm1. Like seriously. Of all the photographer or design people I know, all of them love the fuji X gear because a) they think it looks cool or b) because they understand the techie appeal of the smaller system/lenses. Of all my non-arty friends, at least 1/3 actually OWN a fuji X camera (usually x100 or x20) and the rest are making constant comments at mine about how cool it looks.
The fuji X isn't a niche market and young people don't want some dumbed down thing sold on features - they want something exclusive, something that is different from the pack of cameras already out there, and something that looks and feels like a real camera their parents would have used at their age.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I have to agree with gavinlg. I know quite a few photographers in ages from their 20s - 60s. Fuji appeal is more then what is on the outside, though that helps. A lot of younger for want of little or no knowledge, seem to gravitate towards Canon or Nikon for their first cameras, but then become disenchanted with their optics, system choices, size, and weight.
I'd rather spend my money on optics that are first and foremost excellent from the start. One range. Canon, Nikon, and Sony, offer more than one range based upon one's budget. Might be appealing at first, but when you need something that really counts, it comes up short because the money you spent on glass was on just their third tier.
I'd rather spend my money on optics that are first and foremost excellent from the start. One range. Canon, Nikon, and Sony, offer more than one range based upon one's budget. Might be appealing at first, but when you need something that really counts, it comes up short because the money you spent on glass was on just their third tier.
YYV_146
Well-known
If we are all quoting from anecdotal evidence, I'm also in my twenties with quite a few friends interested in photography. I have some friends highly into M43, and some others that are into Sony. Most use adapters, but some do actually buy E mount lenses. Fuji usage is lower compared to M43 and E mount, but of course Canikon dominates all else.
I think your friend circle may be biased towards a finer taste of design than the general population of 20-35 years old (and I'll admit that mine is biased because most of them are getting PhDs, but that is less relevant to camera choice...). People who actually care about design will of course prefer the Fuji cameras, but people who don't will just see a bigger body with less functions, and go for the Sony or Olympus option.
Looking at the camera sales figures, Fujifilm does not make nearly as big of an impact as Sony does. Things may have evened out a bit in the recent few months, but before the X-M1 came out Fuji did not have any entry-level body. The vast majority of Sony E mount users don't have an NEX-6 or NEX-7s, they have a $400 NEX-3N or NEX-5R, and that is a market that Fuji has only recently begun to tap into. Sony obviously has a bigger edge - most of the people I know don't even know that Fujifilm makes digital cameras, but you never know how things will develop in a year or two.
I have no bias against Fujifilm at all - but whatever good cameras they make, they're still a brand that mostly caters to the smaller semi-pros and serious enthusiasts, not the large pool of normal folks looking for something better than their iPhone.
Sam Kanga
Established
WHAT! You mean J.K. Rowling faked her ISO's as well?
YYV_146
Well-known
But with Fuji one is limited to moderately expensive and decent but not superb optics. There are no available options for uncompromising quality such as the Zeiss ZE/ZF lenses, and there are no budget options asch as the Canon 50mm F1.8 or 18-200. Of course, there are adapters available for the X-mount that can take care of the issue.
Say I'm a photographer looking for a moderately fast budget 50mm equivalent. The going price for Canikon is about $100-150, and Nikon has a very cheap 35mm f1.8 for DX. With Sony A mount the cheapest production 50mm is below $250. The E mount 35mm f1.8 is stabilized and $450. Fuji's 35mm F1.4 is $600 new, an amount I might not want to spend. Granted, it's probably a better lens on APS-C than all of them, but I might not care about the optical quality, just the FOV and thin DOF.
Even if I sell the third-tier lens for a high-end offering a year or two down the road, my loss is minimal. The 50mm F1.8 I bought for $115 I sold for $85 after two years. The upgrade, however, is much smoother this way. With XF lenses it's mostly either buy and keep or don't, and frankly I think that's keeping many potential consumers away.
back alley
IMAGES
when i read the original post i take the meaning of the question to be…has fuji changed your personal level of involvement in photography?
not has fuji changed photography…
i think many here will acknowledge that new gear often turns into a renewed energy level and a renewed interest in creating new and wonderful images.
for many of us, that new gear has been fuji made, from rf like cameras to lenses that stun with razor like sharpness.
so, for my part…i agree…i think fuji has deepened my desire to be creative in my photography…to me, sony is innovative but soul-less and canon/nikon has lost touch with their customer base as much as leica has…fuji is the only one that seems to listen to us.
not has fuji changed photography…
i think many here will acknowledge that new gear often turns into a renewed energy level and a renewed interest in creating new and wonderful images.
for many of us, that new gear has been fuji made, from rf like cameras to lenses that stun with razor like sharpness.
so, for my part…i agree…i think fuji has deepened my desire to be creative in my photography…to me, sony is innovative but soul-less and canon/nikon has lost touch with their customer base as much as leica has…fuji is the only one that seems to listen to us.
froyd
Veteran
Fuji is a great company, and the X-series features some interesting cameras, but no, the have not done much for photography. They have made some photographers happy, but that's a different story.
Cellphones and Instagram have have much broader influence...and the result is mostly crap, though the genre of the cellphone selfie has been elevated by some into an art form. Pedestrian food photography and mundane everyday shots can be added to the list of contributions. But in all seriousness, the pervasive nature of cellphone photography and its social media integration have a huge influence on photography, from what is considered aesthetically pleasing to the value that's put on images.
If by JKR you meant both broad and good influence, I don't know of any company or product type that, of late, merits comparison.
Archiver
Veteran
My observations are mixed. I've seen three X10s or X20s in the wild, and they are all owned by older men with grey hair and glasses, probably in their 50's and 60's. The ILC X-cams I've seen were being shot by youngish guys in the 20-30 range. I've seen three X100s and they were owned by guys who looked to be in their 30's.
As for the JK Rowling comparison, I doubt that Fuji have done the photographic equivalent of making an entire generation take up a hobby, i.e., reading or photography. Cellphone cameras and social media are the more likely culprits of this emergence. I see more people doing cellphone photography in a day than X-cam photography in a year.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Outside of this forum I`m not sure what impact these cameras have had.
In the UK I rarely (never) see anyone using them .
Everyone that I know, apart from friends here, use high end Nikon or Canon and /or a mid price compact.
Same for street photographers ...and here I`m thinking of the Manchester Flickr group .... all DSLR`s .
In the UK I rarely (never) see anyone using them .
Everyone that I know, apart from friends here, use high end Nikon or Canon and /or a mid price compact.
Same for street photographers ...and here I`m thinking of the Manchester Flickr group .... all DSLR`s .
Aristophanes
Well-known
Fuji's Imaging Solutions section of the company has been in steep decline for over a decade.
Their 2006 revenues for Imaging Solutions was 25.8% of revenues. It is half that in 2013.
Imaging Solutions in 2006 was Y689,458. In 2013 it was Y294.8.
If you follow the Japanese business story and shareholder feedback, Fuji is heavily criticized for replacing the revenues form film with a very heavy, high-capital, low return investment into retail cameras, especially high-end models. Fuji has been heavily criticized as a sensor designer and fab owner for missing the camera phone market (mostly to Sony), instead putting it all into standalone Fuji sensors in limited run cameras (a couple of hundred thousand instead of tens of millions of units). The decline in revenues is not solely attributable to film (which has become negligible in the last 4 years) nor to P&S. It has a lot to do with having very high price points and the whittling away of the much broader consumer base.
That is why Fuji went on a low-end tear. They are losing mindshare as a consumer electronics retailer, a position the spent 40 years building up. Compact camera sales losses are nowhere near being made up for my the X-series. If they lose 10 compact customers they are only getting 1 X-series customer. Fuji's losing volume sales to become yet another brand aiming only at the high-end. Can they all do that? Canon and Fuji are probably the most consumerist brands in photography (now that Kodak is a shell).
Fuji's camera division is in danger (along with Olympus's) of becoming a very small cog in a much larger company where the real revenues and decision-making come from B2B segments. Retail products are low margin and, to be honest, at Fuji's recent price points, quite low volume. Of concern is Fuji's photo division longtime operating losses.
The pattern is not dissimilar to Minolta or Konica. Forget all the chatter here and on DP Review. That actually makes little difference. At some point the Fuji Imaging Solutions division is going to have to stop bleeding revenues. Their latest operating losses have appeared to slow, but they've done that before. Fuji's photo division solely based on digital photography has been working at an operational net loss for quite some time now. Putting it bluntly: they've been losing money even on the X-series. That cannot last. How much longer? Hard to say. It's a well run company but increasingly its focus is not on cameras. Of particular concern to investors is Fuji's reliance on very expensive in-house, proprietary technology, especially in its camera division. I suspect their sensors are substantially costlier to produce than Sony or Samsung's, and that has contributed to their poor bottom line. While Olympus has experienced a spectacular blow-up an public shame almost unheard of in Japanese corporate society, there is apparently tension at Fuji as well.
I am not saying that their products are not very good (I own Fuji cameras). But JK Rowling got rich writing wizard stuff. Fuji's not pulling a JK Rowling with their cameras. The market right now is primed for some consolidation (Sony and Olympus was just a hint) and probably some ending of product lines.
Sam Kanga
Established
re: J.K. Rowling
Why is she even mentioned in RFF - but anyway, I'm fine with any author doing well - no problem at all. But the books are not for me (hint: I'm not 14) but ok for my kids. At least they are written better than the Dan Brown nonsense. I had to skip to every second chapter of (you know what) just so I could read about Paris - but don't get me started, this is a photo forum.
Why is she even mentioned in RFF - but anyway, I'm fine with any author doing well - no problem at all. But the books are not for me (hint: I'm not 14) but ok for my kids. At least they are written better than the Dan Brown nonsense. I had to skip to every second chapter of (you know what) just so I could read about Paris - but don't get me started, this is a photo forum.
Takkun
Ian M.
In my interpretation of the original question, I'd agree, in the sense that they've made a digital system artists and film enthusiasts can really get excited about. They gave us an alternative to the dozens to the mirror less systems that mostly seemed like supercharged point-and-shoots in terms of interface.
Anecdote: not long ago, I was in a B&M shop and a friend who worked there showed me one of Canon's higher-end models. It was a brick with a lens on the front, touchscreen on back. None of us in the store could figure out how to turn it on.
As for system versatility and market penetration, no , that would be the domain of the M43 systems though that came as a surprise to me, considering the full-size Four Thirds didn't realy go anywhere. I (a 20-something grad student with an educational background in photography) bought into it; the x100 was the only compact I got really passionate about.
On the other hand, the economics might not make sense, considering what's been said about costs and lens availability. I'd hazard to guess that most of the buyers are people like me, with a strong film background less than excited about what else is on the market.
I used to sell cameras, so I get asked a lot for recommendations, and among novices it's always something along "what's the most feature-packed camera I can get for X dollars?" And Fuji isn't often in that budget. A quick scan around campus today I spotted at least 4 Sonys and a Nikon or two.
But getting people *exicted* about photography? I'd say so.
Anecdote: not long ago, I was in a B&M shop and a friend who worked there showed me one of Canon's higher-end models. It was a brick with a lens on the front, touchscreen on back. None of us in the store could figure out how to turn it on.
As for system versatility and market penetration, no , that would be the domain of the M43 systems though that came as a surprise to me, considering the full-size Four Thirds didn't realy go anywhere. I (a 20-something grad student with an educational background in photography) bought into it; the x100 was the only compact I got really passionate about.
On the other hand, the economics might not make sense, considering what's been said about costs and lens availability. I'd hazard to guess that most of the buyers are people like me, with a strong film background less than excited about what else is on the market.
I used to sell cameras, so I get asked a lot for recommendations, and among novices it's always something along "what's the most feature-packed camera I can get for X dollars?" And Fuji isn't often in that budget. A quick scan around campus today I spotted at least 4 Sonys and a Nikon or two.
But getting people *exicted* about photography? I'd say so.
lxmike
M2 fan.
lxmike
M2 fan.
Thats exactly what I meant, more people in the Uk are actively reading as a leisure form these days, especially with the likes of Kindle and authors such as J K Rowling have been credited with getting the youth market involved again, likewise companies such as Fuji have re invigorated peoples involvement in photography
lxmike
M2 fan.
Funny you should mention that, I was walking near Durham Cathedral the other day with my x pro 1 and a gentleman carrying an Olympus pen in a nice leather half case came across to chat, I had spotted what he was carrying and likewise he had spotted what I was carrying, apart from that I have never seen a Fuji in the 'wild' as it were
lxmike
M2 fan.
I mentioned Jk as a means to invoke discussion, she has often been credited with, 'getting people re involved with reading' and I thought that in some way companies Ike Fuji with their offerings are getting people such as myself and other RFF members more involved with their photography, not to keen on her books by the way always be a Tolkien fan
lxmike
M2 fan.
Some interesting points coming from this thread, its interesting how the 'photography' needs of the youth market is being met by camera phones, I had never really thought about that before, I also like the fact one post in this thread mentioned the influence of Lomography, I too feel that lomography has had some influence on photgraphy especially colour photography. Often I wonder if the technology of today was available to Henri Cartier Bresson what would he have used, camera phone, analogue or digital, would he be bothered about brands/makes, or simply use a camera that suited his needs as a tool, would he even see some people who use certain cameras as nerds, I do not know. Anyway, if all Fuji fans are nerds then that makes me one which is kind of cool a nerd at the age of 50, who would have thought
Sparrow
Veteran
... personally I think Rowling simply ripped-off the whole thing from Jill Murphy's The Worst Witch ... not sure where Fuji get their ideas from
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
I do hope you have your bomb proof trousers on, Stewart. The Potiban will be gathering to unleash an Improvised Explosive Spell on you for that sacrilegous claim!