is harman warmtone really THAT contrasty?

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kmerenkov

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I am printing ilford deluxe mg rc paper using ilford harman warmtone developer.

I tried various times (from 20 secs to 50 secs, usually I use 17 for all my prints), tried 2*Y filters, 2*M2 filters, it looks nearly the same - too damn contrasty.

What I am doing wrong?

Speaking of negatives: they look normal too me, and it is not first time I am printing (even though it is first time with harman).

3001973753_c0864f2a46.jpg


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3002312121_23aec1ab55.jpg


"Blacks" look great to me, though highlights are all washed out.
 
For what it's worth, I like the contrast on the landscape and church photos :)

As far as tuning down contrast, I usually reduce the amount of Magenta filter and increase the Yellow. But then again I'm using a diffusion color enlarger, never used any other filtering systems before.
 
Thanks for liking the contrast I am fighting with :-D
I think that more midtones wouldn't hurt the first photo.

I am using old polish Krokus enlargener. I think that nothing fancy is there. And I tried two yellow filters, nada...

My experience tells me that harman will be rare but very welcomed guest (if nobody will prove that harman is not about contrast) in my printing sessions. As for now I ditch harman bath and fill in ilford pq universal.
 
palec said:
From my unfortunate experience with Ilford paper developers this is a sign of expiration.
Click to expand...

I couldn't find date anywhere neither on bottle nor its carton box.

I wonder if it's been in shop longer than 12 or so months.
Anyway, it must be cool if your picture consists of a lot of shadows and they form nice pattern =)
 
palec said:
Yep, Harman is hiding this "detail". You can get the expiration date by posting technical enquire here: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/contactform.asp
You'll need to provide batch number code, which must be somewhere.



A sort of reverse lith print ;)
Click to expand...
Nah, too much troubles for nothing :)

So, are you people satisfied with that developer? Care to show something what you are proud of? Just curious what one needs to expect in "normal conditions" :)

Thanks
 
This is a puzzle. What do you get unfiltered? Should be roughly grade 2. I don't think it's exhausted developer, because you're getting good blacks. Have the negatives printed OK at other times? Have you tried WT paper in the WT developer? And how long are you developing for? It's quite a slow developer. Also, I'm not sure about your filters. Have you tried MG filters?

The picture on this page is XP2 printed on MG WT in WT dev, as far as I recall; 90/3,5 Apo-Lanthar: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool3.html

Cheers,

R.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
This is a puzzle. What do you get unfiltered? Should be roughly grade 2. I don't think it's exhausted developer, because you're getting good blacks. Have the negatives printed OK at other times? Have you tried WT paper in the WT developer? And how long are you developing for? It's quite a slow developer. Also, I'm not sure about your filters. Have you tried MG filters?

The picture on this page is XP2 printed on MG WT in WT dev, as far as I recall; 90/3,5 Apo-Lanthar: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool3.html

Cheers,

R.
Click to expand...
No I didn't try to print these negatives before, this is the first time. I didn't try WT paper in WT developer. I am developing for like 2-3 minutes (actually, when I feel that image is ready... with PQ it is 6 seconds or so). My filters are foma filters for MG papers.

I think we better close the case now since I won't be developing till next week, or even later (now is C41 time), and so I won't be able to tell anything more I think. And maybe next time will be better just because of moon phrase or something else. ;)
 
I would try some radical things to see if you can get highlights:

double the exposure time, then develop for the same time as before.
Keep exposure time the same, then develop for double the time of before.

Dev is likely to be OK as good blacks, as Roger said. Dead dev gives muddy blacks in my experience.

Looks like either a paper exposure time or development time issue. With RC paper 1 min should be fine for development at normal room tem of 20-22 or so degs C. This would suggest that the exposure is under. Are you operating under very cold conditions perhaps?

I had something similar to this, but with exceedingly muddy prints when two seperate batches of different papers mysteriously died at the same time (when all the others were fine).

If this does not work, your only option is to try different paper or/and different dev.

Good luck

Rgds
 
Just my 5 cents. I am using only Harman Warmtone as a paper developer since it is the only one available locally. I never had problems like yours with contrast, even if I am using 1 year old concentrate.
 
I develop normal MG and WT (both RC) in the warmtone developer for a little more than 2 minutes at ca. 20 degrees celcius. I usually have to set my enlarger to grade 3 or there-about. (Durst color head).

Greetings,
Dirk
 
I actually found Ilford MG to be mildly contrasted.

What happens if you leave your paper for longer in the developer?
How diluted is your developer?
Did you try a test strip? cover the whole paper and uncover each section for 10secs or so.
I think there is an underexposure problem so that the highlights are not getting enough light. How does the contact print look like?


Also check if the paper becomes less sensititve to light with yellow filters (in the information sheet) it may require double exposure, and also your filters block light so the exposure must be increased
If you want absolute 00000 contrast try a green filter (exposure must be 4X that of unfiltered though)
 
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