Avotius
Some guy
Well we all have heard the story. I cant afford a M8 and think of all the photos I would miss out on waiting for one or the next incarnation of a digital rangefinder. I got a bessa r2a which is great and three fine lenses, a zeiss 50 planar, cv 35 PII and Leitz 50 Elmar redscale sitting here that has not got a whole lot of use in the past two months. Why? Film prices, developing and what not in this city are astronomical! I literally cant afford to shoot film anymore except sometimes with the medium format out on trips. This really guts me as my zeiss 50 has not got as much use as it should and all that. I am seriously thinking of selling off my R2A and maybe one of the lenses so maybe fund a digital something in the coming few months.
My question is though........is it really smart to buy an RD1 now? I have a Canon 20D, its great, really great of course, but damn if I would be seen carrying it around the city with its 17-40 lens. That is just not my idea of a good time...plus its almost had it and I really do work better with a rangefinder on the streets where 90% of my shooting happens so what can I say?
I am afraid of my nice rangefinder glass sitting in the dry box not getting used and have even though about ditching the bessa and the three lenses and just hoping later on that I can get into it if something comes around that works for me.
By the way, if you are wondering how it is that I cant afford to shoot film, I make about 300-350 dollars a month, the cost of one roll of Ilford XP2, developed, and scanned 6 inch is about 12 dollars total. I had a 3-4 roll a week habit, and a lot more 6 months ago.
I have read what the articles on luminous landscape about the rd1 and just sort of cringe at the idea of some of the details on the camera like the battery life, the crooked frame lines, literally no in camera frame-able semi wide. I understand that with this camera the widest frameline is 42mm and you cant see that with glasses on? I wear glasses and can see the 35mm frames in my r2a fine for the most part.
The worst thing probably is that an RD1 feels like a step down for me from my 20D but its a rangefinder so maybe just be happy with it. Regardless I still should ask, how much are second hand RD1 bodies going for now a day? Should I be looking for the rd1s instead or should I hold out or that Leica M8 and Zeiss 25mm that I have been drooling over and just hope that I can save enough mula up before they disappear from the market all together.
My question is though........is it really smart to buy an RD1 now? I have a Canon 20D, its great, really great of course, but damn if I would be seen carrying it around the city with its 17-40 lens. That is just not my idea of a good time...plus its almost had it and I really do work better with a rangefinder on the streets where 90% of my shooting happens so what can I say?
I am afraid of my nice rangefinder glass sitting in the dry box not getting used and have even though about ditching the bessa and the three lenses and just hoping later on that I can get into it if something comes around that works for me.
By the way, if you are wondering how it is that I cant afford to shoot film, I make about 300-350 dollars a month, the cost of one roll of Ilford XP2, developed, and scanned 6 inch is about 12 dollars total. I had a 3-4 roll a week habit, and a lot more 6 months ago.
I have read what the articles on luminous landscape about the rd1 and just sort of cringe at the idea of some of the details on the camera like the battery life, the crooked frame lines, literally no in camera frame-able semi wide. I understand that with this camera the widest frameline is 42mm and you cant see that with glasses on? I wear glasses and can see the 35mm frames in my r2a fine for the most part.
The worst thing probably is that an RD1 feels like a step down for me from my 20D but its a rangefinder so maybe just be happy with it. Regardless I still should ask, how much are second hand RD1 bodies going for now a day? Should I be looking for the rd1s instead or should I hold out or that Leica M8 and Zeiss 25mm that I have been drooling over and just hope that I can save enough mula up before they disappear from the market all together.
SteveM(PA)
Poser
Well, I really liked your GRD shots, personally...seems really good for the streets/situations where you live. The R-D1 is so expensive, and finicky. Used ones will most likely have seen a lot of clicks. It is a shame about your excellent lenses just sitting there, however, if I were going this route now, I would maybe consider that new CV 40/2 pancake and whatever small Pentax SLR body would work with it. Seems like that kit could cover alot of ground for you.
akptc
Shoot first, think later
I would recommend the R-D1 without hesitation. I've had the shutter on mine preventively fixed by Steve Camera and have never had a problem with the camera. It gets more use than literally any film or digital camera I own and I simply love the quality of the images it produces. The way I see it, all digital cameras have their quirks and worrying about that only leads to stomach ulcers 
Good luck with your decision.
Good luck with your decision.Uwe_Nds
Chief Assistant Driver
Avotius said:
Your three lenses then would be the equivalent of 75, 50something and again 75 focal lengths. Could you live with that? If yes, then probably go for the R-D1.
If not - well, I second the idea of getting a Pentax DSLR with the 21 pancake and the 35/2.0.
Best regards,
Uwe
Tuolumne
Veteran
Most of the problems have been around rangefinder alignment. Once that gets sorted out they work fine. Mine certainly has. In fact, I have a spare backup that I have never used because the primary has had no problems. I would consider selling it.
/T
/T
S
simonclivehughe
Guest
The R-D1 is a great camera. Although I'm now shooting M8s, I had a pair of Epsons a few years ago and they produced some of the best images I've taken. Don't be fooled by the 6MP... I've printed out up to 13x19" and the results are excellent. Check out my Paris pictures on my website if you'd like to see the results I got.
Terao
Kiloran
Avotius, I wear glasses and have eyepoint issues with most cameras. I can see the 35 lines just about on the R-D1. The 28s are nowhere to be seen. I'm trying to remember what the view was like through my R2S, as I guess that finder was the same as the R2A.
Do you use the external finder on the GRD? If so, my view of the 21 lines is similar to the 35s on the R-D1.
As to used, I would go for an R-D1 and apply the firmware upgrade. The main reason is that the rangefinder is more street adjustable than it is on the R-D1S (you access it through the hotshoe and there is less clearance on the R-D1S. An R-D1 with the firmware applied is basically the same as an R-D1S.
Something else to bear in mind is that its not a compact camera by any means - its bigger and heavier than an R2A. Its sort of like the difference between the GX100 and GR-D - GR-D fits in a pocket, GX100 doesn't quite as well.
Your biggest issue though is that you'll be shooting street with a 53mm lens, not ideal for your style I think. Maybe swapping the 35 for the CV 25 would be an option (I'm guessing that the wonderful Zeiss 25 is out of your budget) or even the 21, but then you're into external finder territory...
A tricky decision, an R-D1 isn't cheap. Even at $12 you're looking at about 100 rolls to buy one secondhand. Of course the R-D1 will be worth something in resale...
I'm not sure I've helped
Do you use the external finder on the GRD? If so, my view of the 21 lines is similar to the 35s on the R-D1.
As to used, I would go for an R-D1 and apply the firmware upgrade. The main reason is that the rangefinder is more street adjustable than it is on the R-D1S (you access it through the hotshoe and there is less clearance on the R-D1S. An R-D1 with the firmware applied is basically the same as an R-D1S.
Something else to bear in mind is that its not a compact camera by any means - its bigger and heavier than an R2A. Its sort of like the difference between the GX100 and GR-D - GR-D fits in a pocket, GX100 doesn't quite as well.
Your biggest issue though is that you'll be shooting street with a 53mm lens, not ideal for your style I think. Maybe swapping the 35 for the CV 25 would be an option (I'm guessing that the wonderful Zeiss 25 is out of your budget) or even the 21, but then you're into external finder territory...
A tricky decision, an R-D1 isn't cheap. Even at $12 you're looking at about 100 rolls to buy one secondhand. Of course the R-D1 will be worth something in resale...
I'm not sure I've helped
Tuolumne
Veteran
An external finder works just dandy on the R-D1. I've used everything as wide as a CV 15mm with external finder. No problem at all. In fact you can use an external finder to get a better view of the 28mm fov as well. (You need to use a 21mm external view finder which gives about a 31mm fov on the R-D1, close enough).
Edit: My wrong. You need to use a 28mm finder which approximates the 31mm FOV of the 21mm lens on the R-D1.
/T
Edit: My wrong. You need to use a 28mm finder which approximates the 31mm FOV of the 21mm lens on the R-D1.
/T
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noimmunity
scratch my niche
I felt myself in a similar boat with film costs and finally decided to take the plunge. Watching used prices command anything from $1700 to $2000, I bought Jim Buchanan's used R-D1 off this board for less. About a week later, wouldn't ya know it, Mike Brice put his up for US$1250 (gone in an instant). Because of the time zone difference, it is easy to miss first chance on a lot of the deals by RFF members in North America, but also for the same reason you can have a chance at items posted late in the evening over there (as Mike did with his). Prices may go down after Christmas...Maybe Toulumne will cut you a deal. His back up is probably well cared for and reliable...
Amyway, I'm really enjoying the R-D1. I also choose it over the R-D1s for the easier RF accessibility. I love the images, I love being able to use my M-mount glass, I love the handling and the fact that it looks/feels like a film camera, the normal view caused by the crop factor is something I can live with (my film cameras are still alive and well), I love the immediate turnaround of digital, and yeah I can shoot experimentally to my heart's content and not worry about film costs. Battery life doesn't seem to be a problem--extra batteries are not that big, really.
So yeah, I'd say definitely go for it! Sell the Bessa R2A, CV 35, and 50 Elmar and use most of the proceeds to buy an R-D1 and your favorite 25 or 28 lens (probably a CV Ultron), ideally leaving a little xtra to buy a fixed lens RF like a Canonet QL17 or a Konica Auto S3 just to keep a film-based option RF. I'll have a 28 coming up for sale soon, and possibly can arrange for friends to carry it to Beijing...
I just got a ZM 18/4 Distagon at a huge discount so I'll be eager to see how it works (as a wide 28) on the R-D1. Having a 28-40/50-75 setup on the R-D1 sounds nice to me, and the 18 was my next logical step down from the ZM 25. That's going to be quite a challenge learning how to use it effectively!
I can't answer the questions about the IQ from a Canon to an R-D1 nor about the M8/ZM 25 option. But cost wise I think now is a good time to get an R-D1. I figure its going to be at least two more years or longer before a new digital RF hits the market (even if one comes out earlier, like the Nikon that is rumored, it would be wise to wait at least 6 months after release to see what problems it has). So the cost of the R-D1 will potentially amortize itself over the long run. Then, in about 3 years, it might be the right time to think about getting something else.
Bottom line: It would be really sad if you stopped using RF...
-jon
Amyway, I'm really enjoying the R-D1. I also choose it over the R-D1s for the easier RF accessibility. I love the images, I love being able to use my M-mount glass, I love the handling and the fact that it looks/feels like a film camera, the normal view caused by the crop factor is something I can live with (my film cameras are still alive and well), I love the immediate turnaround of digital, and yeah I can shoot experimentally to my heart's content and not worry about film costs. Battery life doesn't seem to be a problem--extra batteries are not that big, really.
So yeah, I'd say definitely go for it! Sell the Bessa R2A, CV 35, and 50 Elmar and use most of the proceeds to buy an R-D1 and your favorite 25 or 28 lens (probably a CV Ultron), ideally leaving a little xtra to buy a fixed lens RF like a Canonet QL17 or a Konica Auto S3 just to keep a film-based option RF. I'll have a 28 coming up for sale soon, and possibly can arrange for friends to carry it to Beijing...
I just got a ZM 18/4 Distagon at a huge discount so I'll be eager to see how it works (as a wide 28) on the R-D1. Having a 28-40/50-75 setup on the R-D1 sounds nice to me, and the 18 was my next logical step down from the ZM 25. That's going to be quite a challenge learning how to use it effectively!
I can't answer the questions about the IQ from a Canon to an R-D1 nor about the M8/ZM 25 option. But cost wise I think now is a good time to get an R-D1. I figure its going to be at least two more years or longer before a new digital RF hits the market (even if one comes out earlier, like the Nikon that is rumored, it would be wise to wait at least 6 months after release to see what problems it has). So the cost of the R-D1 will potentially amortize itself over the long run. Then, in about 3 years, it might be the right time to think about getting something else.
Bottom line: It would be really sad if you stopped using RF...
-jon
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Bailey
Established
I've been struggling with the same question. I love my CL and the focal lengths I have for it. But paying for film is getting very expensive, and trying to cut costs by getting it developed at cheaper places has led to scratched negs and lower quality images. So it seems that having at least one good digital option is a must.
But since there isn't a digital CL yet, what's the best way to go? Mostly I've been looking at either a used RD1 or one of the ricohs. But I really want something small with an M mount...
I also started wondering last night about this crazy idea: An olympus e410 with a pentax mount adapter and a few of the pentax pancake lenses. The crop factor on that is x2, so if you want wides you'd have to get one of the zuikos. But you could use the 21mm 3.5 and end up with a very compact, high IQ 42mm equivilant camera.
I wish I had some good answers. But like you, I'm struggling with the fact that just don't make what I want to buy.
But since there isn't a digital CL yet, what's the best way to go? Mostly I've been looking at either a used RD1 or one of the ricohs. But I really want something small with an M mount...
I also started wondering last night about this crazy idea: An olympus e410 with a pentax mount adapter and a few of the pentax pancake lenses. The crop factor on that is x2, so if you want wides you'd have to get one of the zuikos. But you could use the 21mm 3.5 and end up with a very compact, high IQ 42mm equivilant camera.
I wish I had some good answers. But like you, I'm struggling with the fact that just don't make what I want to buy.
foto_fool
Well-known
If you want/need a digital RF the R-D1 is a bargain. It has its problems as has been noted, but it can be repaired at least for for the time being. It makes pictures of astonishing quality for all it's "shortcomings" compared to the M8 and higher-end dSLRs.
As Terao says, it is big for a rangefinder, and heavy. You will definitely want to shoot compact lenses - the ones you have should be fine (you might want to make sure the Elmar will collapse into the body OK). I shoot mostly with the 35mm UC Hexanon on mine, and occasionally with the 21mm Avenon, ZM 50mm Sonnar C or 40mm Nokton.
Finally, are you making prints from film? Printing from digital can run into money as serious as film developing.
- John
As Terao says, it is big for a rangefinder, and heavy. You will definitely want to shoot compact lenses - the ones you have should be fine (you might want to make sure the Elmar will collapse into the body OK). I shoot mostly with the 35mm UC Hexanon on mine, and occasionally with the 21mm Avenon, ZM 50mm Sonnar C or 40mm Nokton.
Finally, are you making prints from film? Printing from digital can run into money as serious as film developing.
- John
Tuolumne
Veteran
I don't know why people call the R-D1 big. It's about the same size as a CV rangefinder. Average for a rangefinder, I would say.
/T
/T
thomasw_
Well-known
Hello,
I understand your fiscal constraints, as I share them. I know this is rather obvious, but is it possible for you to develop your own B+W negatives? There is little expense in doing so, as compared to the lay out for a digital RF.
Respectfully,
Thomas
I understand your fiscal constraints, as I share them. I know this is rather obvious, but is it possible for you to develop your own B+W negatives? There is little expense in doing so, as compared to the lay out for a digital RF.
Respectfully,
Thomas
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Tuolumne said:
I used the monstrous Nokton 35 on it and it felt great to me. Heavy, but well balanced.
I have large hands.
But then again, the itsy bitsy teeny weeny 28 Skopar felt good, too.
But the R-D1 is heavier and bulkier than your average Bessa.
The unavailability of a ready made grip is more of a problem for me than the size. If you do a search here you can find solutions used by others. I didn't want to add further to the size factor, so I will just leave it as is. It's fine once you adjust your grip to put more force on the back of the camera (where there is a grip nub). I drool over one of the new style handmade Luigi cases because of the grip...
-jon
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foto_fool
Well-known
Tuolumne said:
It is over a cm taller and wider, and half a cm thicker than my R3A. It is heavier than everything but my Konica III (which feels like solid brass). When I go to use the R-D1 after using one of my film RFs, it feels bigger - noticeably so. BTW I'm over 1.9m tall and weigh nearly 100kg - it's not like the extra size or weight is a bother, I just notice it.
- John
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
From a purely logical point of view. If I was in the market for an Epson, and I'm not because I have an M8, I would buy one right now rather than at any time in the future. This camera has a limited life span for a lot of reasons ... mainly service and repair back up.
Buy your ticket at the beginning of the ride ... not the end!
Buy your ticket at the beginning of the ride ... not the end!
mdspace
Established
R-D1s whitout any doubt!!!
R-D1s whitout any doubt!!!
I suggest deeply the R-D1s!
In my oppinion the R-D1 or the R-D1s is a very good choise camera, very simple and the most important thing is that it can bring you to the old rangefinder style photography (that I love it) with the benefit of the digital photography. Inclusively, always when I use it, I forget that I'm using a digital camera, simply like this.
If you have never take pictures with a digital rangefinder (M8 or R-D1s), you will really enjoy and love this camera if you try it.
One more thing, try to find a dealer in Japan for a new R-D1s, I can't suggest a used one, remember that for more mechannical that can be the R-D1s, it is a digital that means to much electronics and remember how difficult can be to repair electronic stuffs
Check: www.mapcamera.com
R-D1s whitout any doubt!!!
I suggest deeply the R-D1s!
In my oppinion the R-D1 or the R-D1s is a very good choise camera, very simple and the most important thing is that it can bring you to the old rangefinder style photography (that I love it) with the benefit of the digital photography. Inclusively, always when I use it, I forget that I'm using a digital camera, simply like this.
If you have never take pictures with a digital rangefinder (M8 or R-D1s), you will really enjoy and love this camera if you try it.
One more thing, try to find a dealer in Japan for a new R-D1s, I can't suggest a used one, remember that for more mechannical that can be the R-D1s, it is a digital that means to much electronics and remember how difficult can be to repair electronic stuffs
Check: www.mapcamera.com
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JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
The only difference between the R-D1 and the R-D1s, other than the badging and instruction book, is the firmware, which can be downloaded from Epson's website.
Echoing Foto-Fool/John, the R-D1 sure feels like a bigger camera than it is. It is incredibly (and inexplicably) dense for its physical size. It's not an M, but it is a pleasure to use.
Echoing Foto-Fool/John, the R-D1 sure feels like a bigger camera than it is. It is incredibly (and inexplicably) dense for its physical size. It's not an M, but it is a pleasure to use.
Flinor
Well-known
During a bad period health wise last year I convinced myself that I needed antishake and auto focus, so I bought a Pentax K10D with 21 and 31mm lenses. It's a great camera and I like it a lot, but when my wife started agitating for an SLR I gave her the Pentax in a heartbeat and went back to my RD-1. All I can say is after three years I love that camera and the results it gives.
ampguy
Veteran
noticeably
noticeably
bigger than my M4Ps, and M6.
noticeably
bigger than my M4Ps, and M6.
Tuolumne said: