thomasw_
Well-known
endustry said:
Your story makes me think I will wait to buy a digital M from Leica when I can swing it financially. Thanks for being so honest. Sincerely, thomas
Avotius
Some guy
Size is no concern to me really, its a rangefinder which makes it smaller then my 20D and my gf's 5D. It is a lot of money to shell out for a used digital camera though, its as much used as my 20D was new when it first came out.
Yes I could self process film and I do sometimes but time, the fact that chemicals are very difficult to get, and that they are also very expensive doesn't help. But yes, it would be cheaper for me to self develop film, but again, time....
I shoot mostly 50mm so a 35 or 28 on there would do fine I think. I would probably opt for the 35 since it seems 28 cant be seen, although I have been thinking about trying contacts instead of glasses again.
For me the Rd1 is a cheap substitute for an M8, I know some people may feel strongly towards that comment, but its just the way it is for me. The frame lines in the M8 work a lot better for me but its just too damn expensive.
Since I have been using a GRD a lot and do not have the external viewfinder but do shoot a lot of ISO 1600 with the camera and find it to be on the outside edge of acceptable would I be able to expect similar or better noise results from an RD1?
It really would be a pity if I had to stop shooting rangefinders (except for my GSN which I will never sell) and all that nice glass I got sitting there would feel wasted if I left it in there sitting for the next two or three years saving up for a M8, which would never happen because frankly if you have to wait that long to save for something it ain't happening.
Really hard to say really....its a lot of money for something I want and dont want. I had a opportunity to shoot with both the RD1 and the M8 a few months ago and I really think the M8 is the better package although the RD1 was ok. It comes down to do I really want to spend so much money on something that I will always feel is second chair to what I want.....well....I got a bessa r2a which was third chair to the m7 and ZI that I wanted.....its been ok....sigh....
Yes I could self process film and I do sometimes but time, the fact that chemicals are very difficult to get, and that they are also very expensive doesn't help. But yes, it would be cheaper for me to self develop film, but again, time....
I shoot mostly 50mm so a 35 or 28 on there would do fine I think. I would probably opt for the 35 since it seems 28 cant be seen, although I have been thinking about trying contacts instead of glasses again.
For me the Rd1 is a cheap substitute for an M8, I know some people may feel strongly towards that comment, but its just the way it is for me. The frame lines in the M8 work a lot better for me but its just too damn expensive.
Since I have been using a GRD a lot and do not have the external viewfinder but do shoot a lot of ISO 1600 with the camera and find it to be on the outside edge of acceptable would I be able to expect similar or better noise results from an RD1?
It really would be a pity if I had to stop shooting rangefinders (except for my GSN which I will never sell) and all that nice glass I got sitting there would feel wasted if I left it in there sitting for the next two or three years saving up for a M8, which would never happen because frankly if you have to wait that long to save for something it ain't happening.
Really hard to say really....its a lot of money for something I want and dont want. I had a opportunity to shoot with both the RD1 and the M8 a few months ago and I really think the M8 is the better package although the RD1 was ok. It comes down to do I really want to spend so much money on something that I will always feel is second chair to what I want.....well....I got a bessa r2a which was third chair to the m7 and ZI that I wanted.....its been ok....sigh....
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thomasw_
Well-known
I am going to advise you to live on the edge. You are only 23; you have loads of time and few responsibilities (I presume you aren't married with kids and a mortgage, etc.; if you are, all of this is off). Go for the M8 and shoot it a lot! Even if it takes you a few years to pay it off, so what? How else were you planning to spend your mid-twenties? Live on the edge and get the digital M8....just slam it on some low-interest card and shoot away your debt-ridden blues 
And get an extra battery!
Sincerely and somewhat wishful I could be free and easy at 23 again,
Thomas
And get an extra battery!Sincerely and somewhat wishful I could be free and easy at 23 again,
Thomas
mackigator
Well-known
RE: Avotius
The RD-1 = 4.5 months of work for you. Think about it that way. It's cool, but is it that cool?
Putting a prime on that 20D makes more sense to me (though I don't have a DSLR at all right now).
My plan is to keep shooting film forever, but shoot a lot of film until the full frame sensors trickle down. Maybe less after that.
If shooting film is as pricey as you say, consider setting up your own BW darkroom. Also, there's a lot of film cheaper to shoot and send out than XP2. BW400CN, recently expired film, cheap but good color film like Fuji Sensia, developing neg only + contact sheet and waiting to scan until you can afford it ... I'd look at these things before dumping film or buying an RD-1.
The RD-1 = 4.5 months of work for you. Think about it that way. It's cool, but is it that cool?
Putting a prime on that 20D makes more sense to me (though I don't have a DSLR at all right now).
My plan is to keep shooting film forever, but shoot a lot of film until the full frame sensors trickle down. Maybe less after that.
If shooting film is as pricey as you say, consider setting up your own BW darkroom. Also, there's a lot of film cheaper to shoot and send out than XP2. BW400CN, recently expired film, cheap but good color film like Fuji Sensia, developing neg only + contact sheet and waiting to scan until you can afford it ... I'd look at these things before dumping film or buying an RD-1.
Taipei-metro
Veteran
For Mr. A., The answer is no.Bailey said:
Baily, if choose E410, then stop worrying about adapters, it's a 2x, most lens will become telephoto. the new 14-42 is compact and good enough. work with it for a while. This camera is very comfortable in my hands and well designed, it's under $500 now.
K100-S maybe a bit over $500 but, plenty of KA lenses to go around. 21/3.2 is a better choice, but $420. I have a Cosina 24/2.8 KA for my K-Dslr, so I'll get the 21 later...IF I buy the K10, but I opt and bought a Xti for 10mp choise and K10 is getting 'old' so, no K10d. It's about $550 w rebate body only.
I need a 28(18mm) on the wide end so even I took all the K and EF lenses to a two week shoot in Japan, I've never had the chance to go for the prime lenses, I've only uses EF 18-55, SMC-DA 18-55 and two 70-300 for my two Dslr Cameras.
So good luck.
Johnmcd
Well-known
I also have a 20D and a GRD.
Since I got the RD-1....
1. My wife shoots the GRD and it gets used if there is a chance of damage or getting stolen
2. The 20D does sport with quality long glass (and lots of it)
But when I want to take pictures for the sheer enjoyment of taking pictures it is ALWAYS the RD-1!
What is that worth?
It is the street camera I wanted the GRD to be. The RD-1 is leagues better than the GRD at 1600 iso but 800 is the 'sweet' spot IMHO. The GRD's small sensor can't do the impossible no matter how capable it is.
If my RD-1 breaks down I will get it fixed. If that is too expensive or not available I will buy an M8 (but not before).
Cheers,
John
Since I got the RD-1....
1. My wife shoots the GRD and it gets used if there is a chance of damage or getting stolen
2. The 20D does sport with quality long glass (and lots of it)
But when I want to take pictures for the sheer enjoyment of taking pictures it is ALWAYS the RD-1!
What is that worth?
It is the street camera I wanted the GRD to be. The RD-1 is leagues better than the GRD at 1600 iso but 800 is the 'sweet' spot IMHO. The GRD's small sensor can't do the impossible no matter how capable it is.
If my RD-1 breaks down I will get it fixed. If that is too expensive or not available I will buy an M8 (but not before).
Cheers,
John
Tuolumne
Veteran
Noise Ninja does a good job cleaning up noise in R-D1 images.
/T
/T
nksyoon
Well-known
I can see the 28 framelines and I wear glasses - it will depend slightly on the design of your glasses, how far the lens is from your eye.
I had a 20D and have an R-D1 - I don't see any real difference in image quality.
I had a 20D and have an R-D1 - I don't see any real difference in image quality.
Dingo
Well-known
simonclivehughe said:
I just printed out a 20" X 30" picture and, with a 'making sense' distance, it looks terrific.
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
nksyoon said:
I concure with this. I also wear glasses and can see the 28mm framelines. It does depend on the style of your glasses. I think those with thin metal frames and fairly large lenses help.
I have the 20D & GRD as well as the R-D1. Noise performance and detail resolution at 800 & 1600 are much, much better from the R-D1 than the GRD. Not quite as good as the 20D, but IMHO good enough and more 'film like'. Some of course like the high ISO results from the GRD because it suits their style.
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Terao
Kiloran
In terms of noise performance the R-D1 is way ahead of the GR-D at ISO1600. I shoot both and I find R-D1 ISO1600 files to be completely acceptable (although not a patch on Neopan 1600 of course
Example R-D1 @ ISO1600, NR in PhotoRaw set to high:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran/313326778/in/set-72157594405039949
(this shot was one of those lucky moments, caught someone's flash going off behind the subjects head)
An example of our familiar friend Neopan1600:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1383251990&size=m&context=set-72157602018190469
Both shot with the Nokton 40mm @ f/1.4 at about similar light levels I would say
Example R-D1 @ ISO1600, NR in PhotoRaw set to high:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran/313326778/in/set-72157594405039949
(this shot was one of those lucky moments, caught someone's flash going off behind the subjects head)
An example of our familiar friend Neopan1600:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1383251990&size=m&context=set-72157602018190469
Both shot with the Nokton 40mm @ f/1.4 at about similar light levels I would say
Avotius
Some guy
Many interesting comments here about the cameras. I neglected to try the 28mm framelines when I tried the camera a few months ago...pity...I was only shooting my zeiss planar on it.
One question though, my 20D exhibits strong banding at high ISO, how is the RD1 in this regard?
One question though, my 20D exhibits strong banding at high ISO, how is the RD1 in this regard?
DCP
Member
Avotius said:
Hmm.. if you think that's bad.. the cost of storing digital can be equally as bad. You end up shooting more and storing more in terms of hard-disk drives and DVDs. Computer processing power also starts going up. Maybe something you want to think about..
Iron Flatline
Guy in a Suit
I love mine, but that's to expected from members of a sub-forum catering to R-D1 owners. ;-)
Yes, go get one. They're not going to change much in price, they're really nice, and you get to tranistion to dRF. I also own an M8 - I bought my R-D1 after my M8, and am pleased that I own both.
Yes, go get one. They're not going to change much in price, they're really nice, and you get to tranistion to dRF. I also own an M8 - I bought my R-D1 after my M8, and am pleased that I own both.
Avotius
Some guy
DCP said:
more then ready, I got plenty of computer power, remember I do have a 20D. At this moment my photo collection not including my backup is a mere 800 GB and my shutter passed 50,000 long ago, and my camera is bare silver, so I have been around the block a few times. Computer parts and storage here in china is very cheap, plus I have been using photoshop since 4.0 and edit large DV projects on this box so no surprises.
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DCP
Member
Avotius said:
In that case.. by all means.. if you have considered the cost of Leica and comparable M-mounts.. buy one
Terao
Kiloran
I've not seen any high ISO banding. I do see some banding/ghosting around blown highlights but that's to be expected. Once again certainly the GR-D is much worse in this regard.
With high ISO performance the key is to overexpose a little if you can afford the loss in shutter speed - the darker the shadows the noisier they are. Set the camera to +1 and shoot RAW
Just looking for banding in high ISO samples and I cant see any, even in tricky lighting like this shot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran/1415851579/in/set-72157602095574478/
Thats quite a good set for a side by side comparison - ISO1600 in the R-D1, Neopan 1600 in the Ambi Silette, and some Mamiya 7ii medium format stuff - Ilford Delta 3200
With high ISO performance the key is to overexpose a little if you can afford the loss in shutter speed - the darker the shadows the noisier they are. Set the camera to +1 and shoot RAW
Just looking for banding in high ISO samples and I cant see any, even in tricky lighting like this shot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran/1415851579/in/set-72157602095574478/
Thats quite a good set for a side by side comparison - ISO1600 in the R-D1, Neopan 1600 in the Ambi Silette, and some Mamiya 7ii medium format stuff - Ilford Delta 3200
Rafael
Mandlerian
Avotius
Some guy
Well this RD1 idea seems to be shaping a bit here. Its a firm maybe at the moment. I would be looking into buying one within the next month or two, I have about 1000 dollars saved up and am expecting more soon. It is a very firm maybe if I can find a decent one here in China used and not abused. The problem with living here is that shipping stuff to me from other countries is not easy at all, most often then not things just disappear. Maybe I can get one in the states and have it mailed to one of my relatives in the seattle area and they can bring it over for me or something, have to look into it I guess.
Another question, there is a little fitting for leica that de-magnifies the viewfinder, if I find that I cannot indeed see the 28m framelines is there something that I can attach that will help that issue out if I dont feel like getting contacts?
Another question, there is a little fitting for leica that de-magnifies the viewfinder, if I find that I cannot indeed see the 28m framelines is there something that I can attach that will help that issue out if I dont feel like getting contacts?
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Terao
Kiloran
There should be a demagnifier available - the viewfinder threads are the same as the ones on the Nikon FM/FE series.