Is it true about smiling?

dave lackey

dave lackey

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Just read an interesting article about the difference in portraiture photography in the US and in Europe. Supposedly, a CEO shown smiling in a photo would be taken as fake and/or arrogant in Europe.

Personally, I have long since gotten away from the smiles unless that happens to be their personality as I am shooting, or it just happens. I prefer not to have the posed look, but rather what people look like while they are being them.:angel:
 
You in U.S.A. you doing everything different way then we here in old Europe. Cars, homes, food, etc. etc. I wonder how it comes you don't drive by the mid of the road - to be different from both left and right hand drive :)
 
dave lackey said:
Just read an interesting article about the difference in portraiture photography in the US and in Europe. Supposedly, a CEO shown smiling in a photo would be taken as fake and/or arrogant in Europe.
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In the US there is an odd protestant-capitalist ethos of "become rich by the grace of god" which is alien to Europe. Rich equates evil in the traditional European concept, schooled on a few millennia of aristocratic rule. Not that Europeans don't secretly like to be rich and evil (respectively to be secretly rich and evil), but few like to brag about their rich- and corresponding evilness. The average CEO in Europe will attempt to appear ascetic and industrious in his personal publicity.
 
Only genuine smiles (usually taken in the midst of laughing) are worth anything to me. Anyone with a grain of intelligence can detect a posed smile.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
I've felt that way for the last 20 years that I've been shooting.
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Yeah, me too but only for about 10 years. In the South, everybody is friendly and they grew up with permanent smiles... except the old f@rts who only want to complain and have somebody listen to them.:rolleyes: So, it is difficult to actually photograph people when you ask for their portrait and so shooting candids works much better.

As for CEOs, I dunno, never met one I would want to spend time with...let alone photograph.:) Like most super-rich (whether corporate, celebrity or sports figures), the ones I have known have always been super-arseholes even after you got to know them.
 
Hey, that brings up a question...

I see a lot of old vintage photographs (U.S.) from the 1800s and early 1900s that show people with severe facial expressions, ranging from none to almost hatred. Never any smiles even on children. Why is that?:confused: Surely people smiled back in those tough times...
 
This is absolutely not true and is a flagrant misrepresentation of the study ... what they actually found was that ALL CEO's are fake and arrogant, but they only smile in Europe ...
 
dave lackey said:
Hey, that brings up a question...

I see a lot of old vintage photographs (U.S.) from the 1800s and early 1900s that show people with severe facial expressions, ranging from none to almost hatred. Never any smiles even on children. Why is that?:confused: Surely people smiled back in those tough times...
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There were no snapshots in those days. Everything involved view cameras, long exposures, and one shot had to be it. Kinda takes away the spontaneity.
 
Not so much stereotypes. I heard this from a famous european photographer who has worked with CEO clients for many years. I can only presume that he knows he clients and markets.

There is a fine line between stereotyping people and understanding characteristics. It takes a lot of experience to distinguish between the two and that is why I have asked the question to verify what I read.:angel:
 
patrickjames said:
My experience in the US is that when you are photographing a CEO he does whatever the hell he wants, or what he is told to do by one of the minions of handlers they always have around. You don't get a lot of say especially in the few minutes that you have to do the job.

To Sevo above. I don't think many Americans think about god when they are screwing others over to get rich. As Keynes once said about capitalism-

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."

In Europe people always seemed to me to be much more socially responsible than in the US. I'd move to Sweden or any of a few other European countries in a heartbeat if I could but I doubt they would have me.
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Discussions on capitalism is BS in my opinion, YMMV..but that is not a direction this thread needs to go.

I would prefer that we move the discussion back to photography and smiling, please?

Now, back to smiling!:D

Is there really a difference in how many smiles are show in portraits between, say, the US and Norway? Or Germany?....
 
dave lackey said:
"I see a lot of old vintage photographs (U.S.) from the 1800s and early 1900s that show people with severe facial expressions, ranging from none to almost hatred. Never any smiles even on children. Why is that?:confused: Surely people smiled back in those tough times..."
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My father loved to laugh; loved a good joke, especially when the joke was on him. His brother was the same, both having gotten the love of laughter from their father (that I never knew.) But I always heard the stories about grandpa's shenanigans and remember talk about his father's love of laughter as well and some of his funny quotes.

Below is a cutout from one of two photos I have of my great-grandfather and standing in front of him is my dad. Look at those faces. What a couple of cut-ups! :D There are actually two other folks in this photo - their expressions are the same.

closeupsmileyfaces01-1.jpg
 
Funny you should mention smiling in photographs...
I've been wanting to shoot a very casual portrait of my parents (both 81, my dad will be 82 in November)...
The main problem is this...whenever my mother sees a camera she become this stiff board of a person and cannot relax and will not smile...
I did this just the other day while having lunch with them...at the end of the meal I pulled out my phone to get a quick snap for my address book and I watched her stiffen up...it would be funny but I'm trying to get a decent shot of her and I know it will be next to impossible to do...
Later, outside the restaurant I tried again using the m645 camera I had...
I sat them on a bench across from me and attempted to get them to relax and smile...my dad was doing okay but my mother, insisting she was relaxed and smiling said through stiff lips "I am smiling..."
I got what I could and let it go...hopefully something will be worth printing...
 
patrickjames said:
(...) I'd move to Sweden or any of a few other European countries in a heartbeat if I could but I doubt they would have me.
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<off-topic>
I don't know... Germany has been relaxing immigration and work-permit regulations for several years now. Depending on what you do for a living you actually may be very welcome here.

Contrary to what the world may still believe we don't work ourselves to death, the beer is excellent, the country has beautiful regions, and German girls can be very, very pretty... :)
</off-topic>
 
Interesting thread. My wife is from Europe. She is always laughing and loves a joke. She does find it strange how much people smile in Australia. I may have been influenced by her but I hate smiling in a photograph. There are photographs of me smiling or laughing from years ago, but no-one photographs me now. Except my son, under pressure, as I needed to supply a photograph for my most recent university appointment. I have had such flack over my unsmiling face in that photograph. Even my oldest friend, who lives in Berlin, chided me over this photo - "Do you think you could have tried to be just a bit more serious in the photo?" I now look at board reports and research reports and promotions here: everyone is smiling. I find that weird.

The seriousness in 19th century portraits relates to the weight of the photograph as a record, few ever made and terribly permanent. To make light of the moment would be a sign of lack of proper self respect and of irreverence. I remember my mother being cross if I was laughing or mucking around if there was a camera nearby. And she found fun in almost anything.
 
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