Leica LTM Is the LTM market *that* bad right now?

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
...actually I find it more important to buy food, pay bills and a mortgage than to dish out hundreds, thousands for a camera and lenses when I can make just as good or better images with "cheap" cameras than the majority people on this forum who insist that Leica is the ONLY way to go and everyone else is just cheap or doesnt know any better!
Click to expand...

I was just making a joke! :angel:
 
Pachouli with a hint of burning hemp...mmm.. that is the aroma.
the LTM users are the second group to feel the economic downturn, first it is the strictly FSU gang.

some of the new gear M Leica people will be ok in any type of economy.

from the dark storm clouds on the horizon, things will be getting alot worse ecomomywise, alot worse.

it will be perfect timing for the powers that be to intoduce that unified North American currency to replace the collapsed dollar.
 
Well in Austria and Germany there are no "cheap" Leicas be it LTM or M (Even the Bessa R can cost a premium!).
So even when you buy a user Leica it will end someware in a display raft as you don´t want to damge it. So for me the classifieds were a salvation where I found a Leica IIIc form Keith that I drag around with me at the moment. Would I do the same if I had paid 600$
.....LTM users in Europe would be chapskates to if thgre was sometghing like cheap Leica gear in Europe (even old Canon RF´s are pdicewise very close to Leicas)
 
Timing seems to be everything for the classifieds here.

After Christmas, I began to look at cheap user M's, knowing I would have my bonus check in mid March. In January & February, lots of great user M's at good prices. March? Nothin'. Finally went to KEH (no regrets). April, May - they have returned to the classifieds. Go figure.

Maybe everybody here is full up on LTMs right now, maybe new members who stroll in will get the fever. As far as declining prices, the LTM stuff I want is still "hot" - 35/2.0 Canon, 28/3.5 Canon, 50/1.4 Canon, collapsible Summicron. Just my luck! :bang:
 
I can't speak for anyone but myself... I try to buy from the 2 or 3 boards I frequent that have classifieds, since I feel there is some level of "emotional" insurance associated with the seller-buyer connection in a community you know. The problem I have with the classified board here, and why I hardly ever use it anymore, is that it is too difficult to find things, with all the mega-content ads, brought about by the charging structure, I suppose. It is just too hard to find and then re-find it later.

That reasoning does not speak to the issue of final prices being lower, but it suggests a reason why the views are lower.
 
mabelsound said:
I must say, this is the only forum I've ever seen that charges money for classifieds. If you're going to pay $5, why not go to eBay and let the whole world bid on it?
Click to expand...

Actually, with all those annoying fees, most of what I sell on eBay ends up costing me A LOT more than $5. Plus, on RFF, you can list multiple items in one listing--and directly target people with serious cases of GAS. I don't think it's a bad deal at all.

Joe
 
I spent more money CLA'ing three LTM Leica's than I did on the cameras themselves. New beamsplitters on two of them. Prices for LTM equipment seem to be at almost a twenty year low.

Just keep the cameras if you can't get the money you want for them. Or be prepared to sell them cheap. I prefer to buy low, put the saved money to CLA them, and enjoy them for a long time.
 
I look many times at the classifieds for LTM but too many ads are restrictive or complicated on terms : US only, split paypal, not willing to write lower value on package. Everybody seems to have its own way to go about shipping to Europe and payment. This is boring. Maybe RFF should provide some best practices on how to handle.
Also, with the strong euro, I don´t think that (for example= a used Utron at $375 is a real deal vs bought new at $440. For the difference, better go with an authorized dealer. Many times, it seems to be that the difference between used and new is not large enough.
 
I had problems when shipping to France. Never use Express Mail. In France, the customs challenged the lower value that I had declared on the customs forms. Apparently, they watch Ebay Prices. The Tariff to be charged resulted in the package being refused and returned to me. That was not boring, it WAS expensive.
 
Ken Ford said:
Twice now I've tried to sell a LTM body and lens, and each time I've only gotten a single weak nibble. Is the used market for LTM gear that bad?
Click to expand...

Ken, if it's that beautiful Leica If and Summaron you are referring to, I think I know why it's hard to sell here. I've found, from significant experience, that RFF members are more oriented towards cameras and lenses that are more convenient for the rigors of regular use, rather than as collectibles or what I would call more accurately a "functional collectible". I don't think M39 vs. M is the problem -- it's the nature of the camera, i.e. the lack of a finder, rangefinder, meter, bottom loading, etc. that makes it harder to sell here. I guess what I'm saying is that RFF members are more photographers than collectors, although we have both present.

For example I've found it easier to sell a Leica IIIf than a Leica III, and much easier to sell a Bessa R than a Leica IIIf. I listed a CLA'd Leotax S here in fantastic shape at a reasonable price not too long ago and had nary an inquiry. I decided to keep it for now rather than fund eBay's coffers with a big percentage of a $600 or so sale.

I've found LTM lenses fairly easy to sell on RFF. I think your Summaron will sell and is sellable, but you need to discuss it's functionality as a "shooter", i.e. describe the coatings, show a photo example taken with it, etc. The Summaron is actually a helluva good shooting lens.

That's my spin!
 
Last edited:
dreilly said:
Pachouli is the reason I decided for political science instead of art in choosing a college. It was a mistake ultimately, but at the time it seemed reasonable. Actually, when I catch a wiff of that stuff, I still think that.

I think the same thing about LTM and other cameras. Even M5s are down, at least, on ebay. And all of my recent auction s have gone overseas where the weak dollar is making it a really good deal for folks in Asia or Europe.

I've also been very disappointed with the classifieds here of late and my experiences echo some of the others above. The paid thing isn't cool, but that shouldn't affect the outcome of the ads. Probably a mix of the economy and something else...maybe everyone already has a Canon P, a Canonet, and a Yashica GSN.

Things sure don't fly off these pages as they once did!
Click to expand...

That describes me, I have all three. I could use an additional lens for the P, and have been looking in the classifieds, but haven't found what I'm looking for yet...
 
I disagree with the assertion that M prices are going down on e-bay. I follow leica prices on the bay daily for the last 5 years and M prices are going up except for the M6 classic which is staying about the same. I think the weak dollor is the cause of the apparent rise in cost. Notwithstanding, if yoiu due your due diligance you can still get a great buy on a M body on ebay.
 
Brian Sweeney said:
I had problems when shipping to France. Never use Express Mail. In France, the customs challenged the lower value that I had declared on the customs forms. Apparently, they watch Ebay Prices. The Tariff to be charged resulted in the package being refused and returned to me. That was not boring, it WAS expensive.
Click to expand...

I have had so many things shipped to me from all over the world to France. Not a single package was ever stopped by the customs. But what you described could happen and in this case the buyer should have taken his responsibilities and just pay the taxes as he is entitled to pay taxes anyway. Most US shippers use USPS regular, works perfect too and packages never get stopped. That is why any classified should have some tips on dealing with principal destinations. US only just prevents many members to buy. The language on this site might be English but it is not an only America forum.
 
David Murphy is spot on with his assumptions what regards me.

A If indeed looks nice on a shelf (probably), but I personally would not go through the hassle of its limitations to make it a user. That's what I also ment before when saying that maybe the items are not so desirable.
 
Pitxu: No. Customs want a percentage of the real sale value, and they know that sellers can agree with buyers to try to cheat them out of their percentage, so they don't care about the actual sale, they care about the actual value.
A "gift" still works in most cases, though - since you are allowed to give gifts to people oif they are not too expensive.
 
By the way, I did buy items from the US and latest, from Singapore, with full value marked on box, and it arrived within reasonable time (from Singapore, actually it arrived in four days to Europe) and NO tax was asked at all. But i also got burned when buying from freestyle, where I payed tax on the full sale value plus postage.
 
I marked the item as a Gift, and that status was challenged. It was part of a trade-deal, and the terms were that I shipped first for inspection. I had not accepted any money for the item, and there was no binding contract. My Postal clerk told me that met his definition of a gift! I learned Express Mail is different from Priority mail in how it is handled in many countries. I will not use Global Express again.

My trade-partner ended up selling me the item I wanted at a very good price, so everything worked out between us.

Some other things to consider- you cannot insure an item for more than it is declared. So who should lose money if the under-declared/under-insured item is lost?

Also- never use surface mail. I've had one item lost, and three that were mishandled. Two of those WERE gifts between myself and a researcher in Germany. One lens arrived to him sticking out of the box. A Stein arrived intact, but the Box that started towards me was more like a sphere when it arrived. The last item that I received was a Canon P. It looked like the Magician's Box with swords run through it. The camera did survive, good thing the box was big.
 
leicasniper said:
I don't ship outside the US because everything I've shipped out of the country has been a major hassle in the end. Even things shipped to Canada took weeks to get to their destination (one never made it). The last thing I shipped out of country, and that was a few years ago, was a very close to mint Leica IIIg kit that went to the UK. I'll spare the gory details but the recipient received a flattened box with actual truck tire tracks across it (I need to find the photos he sent me). Nightmare with the insurance. Never shipped out of the country since.
Click to expand...

I really don't know what kind of postal services people are using but we are in the 21st century. Packages do not come anymore in helice planes that stop in Canada and Canaries Islands before arriving in Europe. In my life I have never had a lost package. The tire tracks could happen in any country, this is part of doing business, but I do not think that by restricting ot US only, you significantly decrease your risk. You just make it easier for you and lose on 50% of the buyers out there and potential on your $10 ads. But this is up to you of course, each one is obviously free to do business as he wishes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom