punkromance
Poor art student
As a digital camera, is it worth the cost? No way.
As a FF DRF, is it worth the cost? 'fraid you don't have any other options.
As a FF DRF, is it worth the cost? 'fraid you don't have any other options.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
MikeCassidy
Leica M3
I have four Leica lenses; my sojourn with the G11 has convinced me that I very much prefer manual over the automatic. I also like small; I handled briefly high end DSLRs and they seem very BIG. I guess I have had too many years with my M3.
MikeCassidy
Leica M3
So I went online and priced Canon and Nikons; after comparing I do not see that the M9 is that much more expensive. Canon EOS 1D IV $4643; EOS-1D Mark III
21.2 MP $6079; Nikon D3x SLR $7,499.95; D3S Digital SLR $5199.95. As for weight! Leica M9 19.8 oz.; EOS-1D Mark III 42.7oz; D3x SLR 43 oz.
21.2 MP $6079; Nikon D3x SLR $7,499.95; D3S Digital SLR $5199.95. As for weight! Leica M9 19.8 oz.; EOS-1D Mark III 42.7oz; D3x SLR 43 oz.
Ti29er
Member
The answer is obvious.
To keep pace with No1 grandson, have the best of both worlds.
I sold my M6 a few years back & having read your synopsis, I think there is possibility in answering the wrong question here, which is: “Which is better, the M8 or the M9?” which is the wrong question!
"What camera would best suit my / your purposes" The Leica lens in the LX5 is quite simply fantastic and so if the camera. I'm on my 3rd Panasonic LX (Lx1.3.5.).
Hope this helps.
To keep pace with No1 grandson, have the best of both worlds.
I sold my M6 a few years back & having read your synopsis, I think there is possibility in answering the wrong question here, which is: “Which is better, the M8 or the M9?” which is the wrong question!
"What camera would best suit my / your purposes" The Leica lens in the LX5 is quite simply fantastic and so if the camera. I'm on my 3rd Panasonic LX (Lx1.3.5.).
Hope this helps.
MikeCassidy
Leica M3
BTW, my M3 body weighs 580 g [20.5 oz.]
What drives me crazy about the G11 is that when I want to do something manual it very very difficult. It says you can manually focus BUT that is almost impossible; I have learned how to trick auto focus & auto exposure but I would much rather just do it manually.
What I do like about the G11 is that I am 65, and is shooting low level [angle/height] shots without getting on my old knees just bending the viewer to 90 degrees.
The weight may be the deciding issue for me; also I have never shot a SLR only TLR, rangefinders and view cameras - I am not sure how to classify the G11.
What drives me crazy about the G11 is that when I want to do something manual it very very difficult. It says you can manually focus BUT that is almost impossible; I have learned how to trick auto focus & auto exposure but I would much rather just do it manually.
What I do like about the G11 is that I am 65, and is shooting low level [angle/height] shots without getting on my old knees just bending the viewer to 90 degrees.
The weight may be the deciding issue for me; also I have never shot a SLR only TLR, rangefinders and view cameras - I am not sure how to classify the G11.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I think the M9 should't be compared to these DSLR's ... they are absolute worlds apart.
It's like comparing an axe to a chainsaw!
Mister E
Well-known
Yep, did you read the disclaimer at the end of the video that said, "*The M9 is not weather sealed."
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I think the M9 should't be compared to these DSLR's ... they are absolute worlds apart.
It's like comparing an axe to a chainsaw!
You have a point there for sure. I do think the FF sensors can be compared though. The question could be is the sensor in the M9 worth that much more than the one in the D700. OTH, as a previous poster said, if you need/want a FFDRF then what choice do you have? In that case all else is irrelavent.
Bob
Ronald M
Veteran
Being a Nikon fan after Leica, I strongly suggest a DX sensor Nikon, D3100 or D7000. They are relative small cameras you can transport. The pics definately surpass film Leicas . The 35mm 1.8 is great normal lens for $200 and it keeps the camera small. 60 2.8 is a 90 mm equivalent field of view. It also is not large. About $600.
Some of the noise reduction programs do a fantastic job. The sensor/ processor in these small cameras has come miles since I got my first digi slr in 2006. In fact they surpass what the pro models could do 5 years ago. Bring a card to a local store, make friends, and take some pics. you will be astonished.
Other brands probably have similar cameras, I just know about Leica and Nikon.
Go to Nikon USA and click the products tab and you will find sample photos and specs.
In the end, a well functioning Leica is better, but not by much and the cost is 10x.
I am thinking of one only because I already have a few dozen lenses and bodies. The M9 is a great camera. The M8 is ok , but it has some shortcomings. If you have to even think about money, Leica is not for you. I would not buy a used M8 as there have been too many problems with them. repair costs are outragious.
Some of the noise reduction programs do a fantastic job. The sensor/ processor in these small cameras has come miles since I got my first digi slr in 2006. In fact they surpass what the pro models could do 5 years ago. Bring a card to a local store, make friends, and take some pics. you will be astonished.
Other brands probably have similar cameras, I just know about Leica and Nikon.
Go to Nikon USA and click the products tab and you will find sample photos and specs.
In the end, a well functioning Leica is better, but not by much and the cost is 10x.
I am thinking of one only because I already have a few dozen lenses and bodies. The M9 is a great camera. The M8 is ok , but it has some shortcomings. If you have to even think about money, Leica is not for you. I would not buy a used M8 as there have been too many problems with them. repair costs are outragious.
punkromance
Poor art student
The only one more expensive is the D3X, which let's face it is a whole new beast compared with the M9: MP rivalling digital backs, 2EVs more dynamic range than the M9, much better ISO, and it has a greater colour bit depth.
D3S? 25,600 ISO looks like 2500 on the M9. You might be able to handhold slower shutter speeds with your Leica, but with a camera like that you don't need to.
1Ds MkIII? Let's not forget that you can buy three 5D Mk IIs (which have exactly the same sensor) for the same price as one M9.
Want 24MP? Oh hey, Sony's A850 has the same sensor as the D3X and only costs $1900.
Not to mention the fact that you can drop these cameras and not worry about having to pay god know how much for a RF realignment (though that's just a personal beef I have with RFs).
Point being I could just as easily quote a $35,000 60MP Phase One digital back and say "oh look a flagship, how cheap all these top of the line DSLRs are" when in reality it's like comparing apples and oranges. I have no problem with someone buying one. If they have the money or they want a FF DRF then by all means get one, just don't pretend it's not obscenely priced for what you get.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
It may be obscenely priced for what you get in your perception - but if features and gimmicks are not your thing, and all-dancing all-singing automation drives you up the wall, ANY DSLR is obscenely overpriced. And a hand-built minimalistic camera like the M9 is priced quite reasonably to me. Bottom line - if a price of 6000 Euro is expensive to you you are either going to get the best camera for you - be it an M9 or D3x - and think it worth the sacrifice-, or you shouldn't be looking in the price range at all. Shouting "overpriced"is just a personal perception that is not valid to other persons, or the camera would not be the roaring succes it is. Which means many more people than Leica anticipated find it well worth the money.
sig
Well-known
So somebody (OP) asks if the M9 is overpriced... and we are no allowed to answer yes because it is a personal perception? Well the you should not tell everybody that it is priced quite reasonably because it is just your personal perception that is not valid to other persons.....
My personal perception is that it seems overpriced compared to other cameras (even if it is not valid to other persons).
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, the competition does not consider it overpriced. Zeiss publicly said they were not going to come out with a ff DRF because they could not compete on price.. So the perception of high price is simply false. The correct formula would be: I am not prepared/ able to pay for it. Which goes for quite a number of things in life. I would like to be able to afford a Blancpain Millenium watch. As it is, I have a feeling one million Euro might be a bit too much for me. But if you are earning 500.000 a day, it is certainly not overpriced. So yes - it is a bit stupid to call something you don't consider worth its money -TO YOU- overpriced, when others consider it a good buy.
A lot of people making less than $3500 a day are buying the M9. Leica is back-ordered on the M9. Their sales are way-up this year. A lot of precision machining and optics go into building a long-base rangefinder mechanism. The Konica RF was over $2,000 when it was new in 2000. I have the Pop Photo magazines for its release. The Nikon SP-2005 was over $5000 with the 35/1.8 lens. The S3-2000 was over $4000 with the 50/1.4 10 years ago.
So- if you want a camera like the M9, be prepared to spend a premium on it. Is it over-priced? That is relative and opinion. Is the price Fair considering the cost to make it and to expect some reasonable markup in the business world? YES.
So- if you want a camera like the M9, be prepared to spend a premium on it. Is it over-priced? That is relative and opinion. Is the price Fair considering the cost to make it and to expect some reasonable markup in the business world? YES.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
What ... even the poor souls struggling along on $2500.00 per day or maybe even a few hundred less ... I'm in shock!
How do they do it?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I sometimes wonder how I do... Basically these discussions are surrealistic, as a large proportion of humanity has to get by on less than 1$ a day.... To them any camera at any price is far beyond their reach. Or needs for that matter.
Basically these discussions are surrealistic, as a large proportion of humanity has to get by on less than 1$ a day.... To them any camera at any price is far beyond their reach. Or needs for that matter.sig
Well-known
Unless you have seen the cost breakdown of the Leica M9 and have compared it to the other camera makers you can not say yes/no to that.
But since we are putting our best guestimates out there, I believe Leica is one of the camera makers with the highest markup in the business.
Even if something sells in buckets it does not mean it is not overpriced or have a fair price.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest