Ben Z
Veteran
I'm happy and envious of all of you who bought an M8 or are still planning to. My bloodpressure would be through the roof if I'd spent $5000 and found out I needed another $1000 in filters, plus got flare from them and on and on and on. I am so happy I decided to wait. My $800 20D gives me zero grief and the image quality is good enough. Maybe the M8 is capable of more resolution etc but it's all theoretical since there are so many issues standing in its path.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Ben Z said:
Ben you're not a troll : (
Sailor Ted
Well-known
AusDLK said:
You however are most certainly a TROLL.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
OK here is my first stated reservation regarding the M8. The black shift is IMO a non-issue since it will be dealt with via filters. I'm also assuming the Leica filters will not ghost- if they do ghost then the ghosting is a big issue IMO. Now to the issue that seems to be very serious- banding. Perhaps someone who knows more about digital technology as it pertains to this issue can prove me wrong or shed some positive light (I certainly hope so) but unless a firmware fix is in the works that takes care of this issue, the M8 will not be a camera for me. My Digilux 2 banded like crazy and for this reason and countless others I hate that camera.
As to the Troll statement in light of this statement- I stand behind it, as it's the spirit behind so many posts that smacks of TROLLDOM IMO. Constructive conversation is what these forums are all about- not mean spirited vendettas.
As to the Troll statement in light of this statement- I stand behind it, as it's the spirit behind so many posts that smacks of TROLLDOM IMO. Constructive conversation is what these forums are all about- not mean spirited vendettas.
willie_901
Veteran
Ted,
The IR sensitivity remains a concern. It appears (based on early posts to the LUG) the Leica supplied IR filters have a reflection/flare problem.
The banding on the updated M8s that we saw today is quite strange. It doesn't seem to be related to a strong light source, it seems to lack symmetry, and it is rather wide. Perhaps this problem is limited to a few units and will not be observed in all the updated M8s.
By early January we'll know whether or not the first M8 update is a success, and if the Leica supplied filters cause problems, and if there are third-party filters that work better.
There is a rumor that Leica will use a newly announced thin IR filter with increase IR attenuation in the M8 sometime this summer. Even if I won the lottery tomorrow and drank a tall glass of "I must shoot digital because..." Kool-Aid, I would not even think about buying a M8 for 6-12 months.
willie
The IR sensitivity remains a concern. It appears (based on early posts to the LUG) the Leica supplied IR filters have a reflection/flare problem.
The banding on the updated M8s that we saw today is quite strange. It doesn't seem to be related to a strong light source, it seems to lack symmetry, and it is rather wide. Perhaps this problem is limited to a few units and will not be observed in all the updated M8s.
By early January we'll know whether or not the first M8 update is a success, and if the Leica supplied filters cause problems, and if there are third-party filters that work better.
There is a rumor that Leica will use a newly announced thin IR filter with increase IR attenuation in the M8 sometime this summer. Even if I won the lottery tomorrow and drank a tall glass of "I must shoot digital because..." Kool-Aid, I would not even think about buying a M8 for 6-12 months.
willie
ywenz
Veteran
Sailor Ted said:
Ted omg... He was an early owner of the M8 and then returned it after finding out all of its faults! omg..
The only bad thing about these on-going M8 problems is that for the potential digital RF buyers, the RD-1 is depreciating much slower than anticipated..
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iml
Well-known
willie_901 said:
Let's hope so. Anything else looks like a recipe for problems.
That banding is troubling, hopefully another firmware update can fix it.
Ian
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
>You however are most certainly a TROLL.
Ted, respectfully, please stop reading my posts until the affects of the Kool-Aid wears off. Thanks.
PS. ywenz -- Thanks for your kind words...
Ted, respectfully, please stop reading my posts until the affects of the Kool-Aid wears off. Thanks.
PS. ywenz -- Thanks for your kind words...
Ben Z
Veteran
Sailor Ted said:
I certainly have no such intention. I had $5000 in my hot little fist ready to lay at Leica's feet but with this filters and coding hogwash have decided to wait for the next model, if there is one. Frankly I'm the kind of guy Leica should be trying to satisfy, not the 1,000 or so who jumped on the first batch. I know that sounds selfish and cruel but I believe it's guys like me who hold the key to Leica's survival. I can't see where there can be enough people who will accept whatever nonsensical kludge and spin-doctored excuses Leica hands out, that Leica can turn a profit on the M8. If I'm wrong about that then Leica will keep things as they are and still be in business for years to come, but without me as a customer.
gogopix
Graf
Trolls or not, We all have a right to express our opinions. However, when I read some posts I have this mental image...
"...writer standing with thumb on tip of nose, hand outstretched, wagging little finger at those who own and enjoy the M8, ..."
M8 users could flood these pages with poor images from other systems (but exercise restraint, and save the space)
If one side has the right to express their views, AND how they express them, then the others should have a right to call it as they see/read it.
Full disclosure: I get a real kick out of the byplay!
Regards
Victor
"...writer standing with thumb on tip of nose, hand outstretched, wagging little finger at those who own and enjoy the M8, ..."
M8 users could flood these pages with poor images from other systems (but exercise restraint, and save the space)
If one side has the right to express their views, AND how they express them, then the others should have a right to call it as they see/read it.
Full disclosure: I get a real kick out of the byplay!
Regards
Victor
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
Jorge Torralba said:
Jorge,
My GRD shows an incredible amount of banding with strong lights in the frame on the LCD display, but these don't appear in the captured image even without flash.
This is another reason I usually use the VC 28/35 mini finder with this camera.
Jim
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
>Full disclosure: I get a real kick out of the byplay!
Full disclosure from this one: I have lots of fun playing the evil one...
(Not that my point of view is not 100% heartfelt.)
Full disclosure from this one: I have lots of fun playing the evil one...
(Not that my point of view is not 100% heartfelt.)
jameshays
Member
This add on filter issue is exactly what I was afraid of. About a year ago I shot an indoor event with a digi SLR and forgot to take the UV filter off my 1.4 lens. Most of the shots ended up with reflections and halos from light sources in the room. I've been filterless since. If someone finds that certain brands of filters aren't prone to this I'm all ears. Otherwise it might be a while before I own an M8.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
AusDLK said:
These guys already have enough aggravation to deal with. Is it entirely necessary for you to bust their ba**s every time there is an M8 thread?
In other words 'Grow up' Mr. famous photographer.
HL
rvaubel
Well-known
jameshays said:
James
Yes, filters can cause reflections. But it is the UNCOATED ones that wreak havoc in strongly backlit situations. For some reason people don't consider coating to be important when purchasing filters. The fact that uncoated filters are even available puzzles me. I don't see any uncoated lenses available.
By the way, multicoated lenses are much preferred in extreme backlite situations
Rex
John Camp
Well-known
The discussion on the Leica forum has indicated that the flare problem comes from filters that are coated on only one side (the outside) and that the "flare" is not true flare, but a reflection (probably off the surface of the sensor itself) and is present whenever you use filters under certain conditions, on any camera. It's not just a Leica problem. Jorge doesn't get it because he uses Heliopan filters, which are coated on both sides. Apparently the standard B+W IR cut filters are not. There's a variety of ways to take of the problem, actually, and none is too onerous. (For example, you get the reflection when you're shooting into hot lights at high ISOs. You can not do that. Or, you can simply take the filter off, and if you have a lot of IR reflective clothing around, use of Jamie's C1 corrections to remove some of the red. But this, of course, is one shot in a thousand -- how many times are you shooting into hot lights at night with lots of IR and reflective clothing around and you have no choice but to do that?)
As to the possible "trolling," it's not the individual posts that bother me, its the inane repeition of things that have been said a million times already. They don't say it, but the implication is, "Boy, am I glad that I'm smarter than you stupid people because I didn't buy (or returned ) the M8 and bought something good like a Canon, where I don't consider the inherent softness and the blotchy wide-angle corners to be a problem."
JC
As to the possible "trolling," it's not the individual posts that bother me, its the inane repeition of things that have been said a million times already. They don't say it, but the implication is, "Boy, am I glad that I'm smarter than you stupid people because I didn't buy (or returned ) the M8 and bought something good like a Canon, where I don't consider the inherent softness and the blotchy wide-angle corners to be a problem."
JC
harmsr
M5 Nut
ANOTHER UPDATE:
Shooting at 160 and 320 I have not seen the vertical band.
It shows up at 640 and gets worse as you crank the ISO up.
It is less noticeable with the B+W 486 than it is without the filter.
Ray
Shooting at 160 and 320 I have not seen the vertical band.
It shows up at 640 and gets worse as you crank the ISO up.
It is less noticeable with the B+W 486 than it is without the filter.
Ray
ywenz
Veteran
Like others have said, if this is because of the new firmware, then another firmware fix could fix it. Still, it's alarming that this digital thing is so hard for Leica to get right..
I shot these sample just a little while ago at iso 640. taken with the 35 lux NO IR filter. I thought I saw the band in one of the images. The one where mom is preparing a cup of ice cream for the boy. but now I can't see it. It could be my monitor. but all of the attached were done at 640 with Auto Levels in PS.
For now, I can acceptthe camera the way it is and hope firmware updates will resolve the issue. The pros of the camera outweigh the cons and beside the RD1 there is nothing out there that will take my M lenses. So, my only issue now are the WB and the banding. The IR was never an issue since the filters corrected the problem. I am sure the WB will get better in the future. and the banding is hard for me to see.
For now, I can acceptthe camera the way it is and hope firmware updates will resolve the issue. The pros of the camera outweigh the cons and beside the RD1 there is nothing out there that will take my M lenses. So, my only issue now are the WB and the banding. The IR was never an issue since the filters corrected the problem. I am sure the WB will get better in the future. and the banding is hard for me to see.
rvaubel
Well-known
Jorge Torralba said:
Jorge
Would you mind me asking why you posted a bunch of pictures of the M8 showing its IR contamination? What would be more interesting is to see a comparision after you use the Heliopan filter to supress the IR.
Rex