Is the RD-1 headed for a nosedive?

I would argue the only similarity VF wise is that they both have one.

I don;t know why people would think these will affect the R-D1... It's like saying sales of the Alfa 8C will affect sales of the Nissan Micra because they both have wheels and are cars. (well, the Micra just about)
 
They both have optical viewfinders. For all their differences, it's a significant point of similarity.

And therefore, with the M-9, the Xpro and R-D1 constitute pretty much the whole universe of optical VF, compact cameras that will take an M lens.
 
I see where you are coming from but I really don't think they overlap enough to make someone ditch one for the other. I certainly wouldn't but it looks like some people would!
 
partly it's a money thing also...if i wanted to buy the new fuji it would be easier to sell my 2 rd1 bodies and cv lenses and get the fuji with native lenses.
if i buy one i plan on taking advantage of the af feature.
 
gdi said:
But in the previous posts you were stating that they were being sold to buy small cameras that can mount M lenses.....
No, there is no "definitive" sales data. But if you look you will see some selling for more than you could buy them for from Epson over 5 years ago (with warranty)........
I see there are two still there and offered by sellers with 1 and 2 total posts. .....
.... the whole point of my posting was that I find your tying prices of the Epsons (and M8 and M9) to the availability of the Xpro to be a stretch. ....
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Actually, I never said what they were buying with their previous RD-1 funds. I don't know what they are doing with the money. My point is that the RD-1, while a great camera, is no more immune to market laws than any other camera. Certainly there are people who love them. But a lot of that has to do with the options currently available to them.
The M9 is not an option for many RD-1 users. The M8 may not even be an option for many of them.
But now we are going to have a new camera system that may offer a lot to people who simply want a small interchangeable lens system - regardless of how it achieves its focus. That it will have the ability to use M lenses will be a bonus for some of them.

And regarding prices, I don't care what people list them for. Someone can list an RD-1 for $3,000, that doesn't mean it will sell for that. From what I've seen, the price point is much closer to $1,200 or so. It's going to keep going down. It's just a matter of how fast.
I'd prefer not to comment on the actual listings as I'd rather not mess with their sales. But I doubt it has anything to do with their post count. There are many, many users on this forum who don't care about such things.
Is it really such a stretch to think that a new compact digicam system could compete with an older compact digicam system? I find it odd that you seem to think it is such a crazy notion.
 
Paul T. said:
They both have optical viewfinders. For all their differences, it's a significant point of similarity.
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The optical viewfinder is worthless if you have to focus with the EVF. Same as a Nex 7, 5n with EVF or GXR with EVF. And "focus confirmation" with mf lenses was never satisfactory, even on DSLRs where you got some feedback by being able to see through the lens.

I'm surprised how this faux rangefinder with an OVF that nobody knows can actually be used for focusing lenses can generate so much interest. It could be the best thing since sliced bread. But right now we don't have enough information. And yet we're picking apart how the camera that may or not satisfactorily focus M lenses (which isn't in Fuji's interest as they probably, unlike Ricoh, want you to buy their own lenses) will effect a camera discontinued years ago and only available second-hand.

Sorry for my frustration, but the buzz around the X-1 Pro just seems irrational. I'm not one of those people saying "Fail!" over one aspect or another. But I'm not calling it a hit, either. It looks intriguing, too early to tell.
 
There's a fascinating behavioural trait among RFFers who seem to be whipped into a frenzy of inadaquicy, excitement, frustration and doom forecasting all at once. It's only a camera - some people will prefer it and sell their current camera, R-D1 or not. They probably won't find it very similar to use at all. They might sell their camera because they get bored of photography altogether. Some people will buy both. There's not going to be some wall street style crash in the price of a single type of camera due to the launch of this thing! The whole idea and the hysteria around the whole idea leaves me feeling uneasy, somehow.

EDIT: Sure it'll compete with all the other cameras to an extent, but there are thousands of things competing for our money every day. The R-D1 is such a unique and excellent oddball of a camera that it would have blown out years ago if current competition on paper was anything to go by.

Now back to real life!
 
dreilly said:
I'm surprised how this faux rangefinder with an OVF that nobody knows can actually be used for focusing lenses can generate so much interest. It could be the best thing since sliced bread. But right now we don't have enough information. And yet we're picking apart how the camera that may or not satisfactorily focus M lenses (which isn't in Fuji's interest as they probably, unlike Ricoh, want you to buy their own lenses) will effect a camera discontinued years ago and only available second-hand.
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What else do we have to do but talk about it until it gets here?;)
I don't disagree with you. I think we have no idea what the impact of this camera will be. Two years from now, we may be talking about that failed attempt by Fuji to develop its own compact system. Or maybe we'll be talking about the XPRO-2.
I just think it's cool to have more options for those of us who simply want an interchangeable system with a small form factor. I've ordered one of them - but really have no plan to use it with M lenses. If M-mount lenses prove to be useless on the camera, I won't care. If the native lenses are good (and I have no reason to think they won't be), I expect to be pretty happy.
 
I know, I'm just moody.

EDIT: NOT because I have an R-D1!

EDIT: Whoops you weren't quoting me. Well, this is embarassing.
 
dreilly said:
I'm surprised how this faux rangefinder with an OVF that nobody knows can actually be used for focusing lenses can generate so much interest.
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Because some of us actually like the X100 and aren't opposed to AF. MF is not the be-all-end-all of photography.

Sorry for my frustration, but the buzz around the X-1 Pro just seems irrational. I'm not one of those people saying "Fail!" over one aspect or another. But I'm not calling it a hit, either. It looks intriguing, too early to tell.
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That's because you don't see the appeal of the camera. That doesn't make those who do irrational.
 
Jdrockit,
It's totally rational if you're looking for an AF camera. What I was addressing were those talking about the x-1 as aplatform for their m- glass. Sorry for the confusion. Doug
 
It's funny how so much of the debate over these cameras is based on our own needs/wants. Those of us who don't need/want manual focus or the ability to use M-glass see the Fuji in a much different way than those who view manual focus and the ability to use M-glass as critical.
Let's face it. No one is ever going to make a camera that makes each of us happy. Let's just hope we keep getting more options to consider.
 
dreilly said:
Jdrockit,
It's totally rational if you're looking for an AF camera. What I was addressing were those talking about the x-1 as aplatform for their m- glass. Sorry for the confusion. Doug
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I guess I see the issue differently. When I suggest that the XPro-1 could hurt RD-1 sales, I don't necessarily think it will attract people because of its M platform. I just wonder how much of a market there is for a new system that doesn't rely on M glass.
I wonder how many people are like me - not caring how a camera focuses or what glass it uses. I just want something small, with high-quality interchangeable lenses and a real viewfinder.
I've used rangefinders for the past 25 years because they offered those things. I'm not attacking Leica or Epson RD-1s. I just wonder what the appetite might be for something new, although similar in form.
I've certainly been wrong before. Thought iPads would die on the vine. Obviously that didn't happen.
 
tbarker13 said:
Actually, I never said what they were buying with their previous RD-1 funds. I don't know what they are doing with the money. My point is that the RD-1, while a great camera, is no more immune to market laws than any other camera. Certainly there are people who love them. But a lot of that has to do with the options currently available to them.
The M9 is not an option for many RD-1 users. The M8 may not even be an option for many of them.
But now we are going to have a new camera system that may offer a lot to people who simply want a small interchangeable lens system - regardless of how it achieves its focus. That it will have the ability to use M lenses will be a bonus for some of them.

And regarding prices, I don't care what people list them for. Someone can list an RD-1 for $3,000, that doesn't mean it will sell for that. From what I've seen, the price point is much closer to $1,200 or so. It's going to keep going down. It's just a matter of how fast.
I'd prefer not to comment on the actual listings as I'd rather not mess with their sales. But I doubt it has anything to do with their post count. There are many, many users on this forum who don't care about such things.
Is it really such a stretch to think that a new compact digicam system could compete with an older compact digicam system? I find it odd that you seem to think it is such a crazy notion.
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If you re-read the comments we have exchanged, you should see why I assumed you were implying that sellers were selling the Epson to buy a specific camera. But anyway, I don't think it is a crazy notion that some would choose a new compact camera over an older system. In fact there are plenty of people will ALWAYS sell the older (if only slightly) camera for the newer version (G1-G2-G3; X100 -X Pro; M8-M9...).

I was just calling into question that there was something about the upcoming Fuji that would be overwhelmingly irresistible to R-D1 owners - I just don't see it being more of a motivation to sell than any number of other previous (or future) cameras.
 
gdi said:
I was just calling into question that there was something about the upcoming Fuji that would be overwhelmingly irresistible to R-D1 owners - I just don't see it being more of a motivation to sell than any number of other previous (or future) cameras.
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It's really not a question - to me - of it being specifically interesting to RD-1 owners, but rather to the type of people who might buy/own an RD-1 because of its form factor. In that scenario, the RD-1 could suffer simply because it is the oldest of the pack of similar offerings.
Clearly the Fuji is aiming for that audience, with the retro styling and ability to use m lenses.
In the end, all this talk really means little. Just passing the time, while waiting for the camera to get here. We'll find out soon enough whether the thing is worth anything - and to who.
 
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