Is there any light 85-100 mm FSU lens?

[Thomas78]

Hello,

I am looking for a lightweight (max. aperture between f/3.5 and f/5.6) FSU lens in the range of 85 - 100 mm to accompany my Orion-15 and Industar-22 for travel.

Is there any RF telephoto FSU lens available beside the Jupiter-9 (85mm f/2.0) and Jupiter-11 (135mm f/4.0)?

Regards,
Thomas

 

[Wulfthari]

The Jupiter 11 is VERY light and indeed slender,probably the smallest 135mm I've ever owner...the problem is that it can't focus under 2.5mt!

The Jupiter 9 is chubby and relatively heavy, but not a monster, I think there is a Industar of that focus distance but I never had the opportunity to use it.


I have the complete "system", Jupiter 11, 9, 8, 12 and Orion 15, IMO they are all small and light lenses in comparison to the equivalent Western (Leica and Contax) systems, but in any case if you are using them with a Soviet camera that it's not a Leningrad you'll need the turret so your small camera will become chubby in any case.

 

[sevo]

IMO they are all small and light lenses in comparison to the equivalent Western (Leica and Contax) systems,

Given that they are identical to the Contax lenses, that would be rather a feat. If it must not be a FSU made lens, but a lens for a FSU camera, there would be the Zeiss f/4 85mm Triotar (triplet) for the Contax, which does not seem to have been copied in the USSR (given that other Zeiss lenses that never made it into USSR production were sampled early in the days when they transferred the Zeiss production, a few prototypes might exist). This is smaller and much lighter than the Sonnars and Jupiters with their massive central group.

 

[Wulfthari]

Given that they are identical to the Contax lenses, that would be rather a feat.

Mmm...no.

I also have a Stuttgart Sonnar 135 mm for my Contax and it's slightly heavier, the bayonet is different and it also focus at 1.5 mt, making it a much more usable 135mm.

The Elmar or the Hektor 135 are huge in comparison to the Jupiter 11, and I'm not 100% because I don't have a Sonnar 85 mm but I suspect the German lens is made of brass while the Soviet cousins are made of Aluminium.

 

[agfa100]

Well there is one other choice, FED made a 100 mm f6.3 pre-war (WWII) their copy of the Leica Mt. Elmar. The lens is very small but very heavy all brass with chrome uncoated so you HAVE to use a a36 push on lens hood or it flares like mad. I found a Russian OE style hood for mine, harder to find then the lens. But any of the Leica a36 hoods will work.

The lens that I have is sharp from f8.0, now I use it on a Ricoh GXR with the A-12 M module, plus it will focus down to 1 meter. You can still find them on that online buying site for around 150-200 ++ More then you pay for a normal Russian lens, it is a bit of a collector item these days. So you might want to pick up a older Leica 90mm f4.0 screw mt. same price range but a lot easier to find in nice shape.

Here's a link so you can see what the lens looks like.
http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?1997636669

wbill

 

[sevo]

The Stuttgart Sonnar had closer focus, and a all-brass/chrome finish. But as far as older Sonnars and the Jupiter are concerned, the Jupiters and GDR Jena Sonnars are half way between the pre-WWII Sonnars (both with a hybrid aluminium/brass build) and the lightest all-aluminium wartime Sonnar variants.

 

[zuiko85]

Regular 4 element 90 Elmars are not that expensive and very compact and not too heavy. I got mine off of e-bay for $158 and it is very clean with smooth focusing and clear optics.

I think the FSU 100 f6.3 is somewhat rare and expensive.

 

[Livesteamer]

There is also the Canon 100mm f3.5 in Leica screw mount. Small, light and a very high quality optic that is not expensive. I've got one and it's a gem of a lens. Joe

 

[rbiemer]

I've been looking at the FED 100/f6.3 lens recently and one thing I have noted is that there is conflicting info about it as to whether it is rf coupled or not.
Can any of you folks who actually have one settle this?
Thanks,
Rob

 

[Wulfthari]

Regular 4 element 90 Elmars are not that expensive and very compact and not too heavy. I got mine off of e-bay for $158 and it is very clean with smooth focusing and clear optics.

I think the FSU 100 f6.3 is somewhat rare and expensive.

I've a 2.8 Elmar 90 mm and a Jupiter 9...the latter is a better lens for this focal length IMO.

 

[agfa100]

If you look at the link in my other message you will see that the first version is rf coupled.
I have that version and it worked fine on my friends M-6, I don't use my film M's anymore.
I just use it on my Ricoh GRX w/ A-12 M module and a back up Nex-3. So there are two version's that can be found one is rf coupled the other is not. Which means both answers are correct. BUT you must remember that the pre-war FED lenses may not couple properly with any Leica RF. It's a try and see if it works properly, which is why I use them on mirrorless cameras.
wbill

 

[zuikologist]

The Steinheil Culminar 85/2.8 is also worth considering. Slightly bigger/heavier than the Elmars, but a capable and still compact lens.

 

[agfa100]

Here's a link to one of the first pictures I took with my FED 100mm lens.

http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/wbill/R0011462.jpg.html

His right hand is blurry because they were playing whiffle ball. One of the advantages of living in VA you sometimes have really nice weather on Christmas Day.

wbill

 

[David Hughes]

But be warned that some lenses will only couple with the roller on Leicas. FED and Zorkis need continuous engagement with the RF cam.

Regards, David

 

[goamules]

I have the Fed 100, and it's coupled. I think there was a version that was not. I love this little lens, it's sharper than most in the 75-100mm range.

 

[Thomas78]

Thank you all for your replies!

..., but in any case if you are using them with a Soviet camera that it's not a Leningrad you'll need the turret so your small camera will become chubby in any case.

You can also use smaller (western) viewfinder, e.g. the old Canon viewfinders are quite small.

Given that they are identical to the Contax lenses, that would be rather a feat. If it must not be a FSU made lens, but a lens for a FSU camera, there would be the Zeiss f/4 85mm Triotar (triplet) for the Contax, which does not seem to have been copied in the USSR (given that other Zeiss lenses that never made it into USSR production were sampled early in the days when they transferred the Zeiss production, a few prototypes might exist). This is smaller and much lighter than the Sonnars and Jupiters with their massive central group.

How could I use such a lens on my M39 FSU rangefinder?

Well there is one other choice, FED made a 100 mm f6.3 pre-war (WWII) their copy of the Leica Mt. Elmar. The lens is very small but very heavy all brass with chrome uncoated so you HAVE to use a a36 push on lens hood or it flares like mad. I found a Russian OE style hood for mine, harder to find then the lens. But any of the Leica a36 hoods will work.

The lens that I have is sharp from f8.0, now I use it on a Ricoh GXR with the A-12 M module, plus it will focus down to 1 meter. You can still find them on that online buying site for around 150-200 ++ More then you pay for a normal Russian lens, it is a bit of a collector item these days. So you might want to pick up a older Leica 90mm f4.0 screw mt. same price range but a lot easier to find in nice shape.

Here's a link so you can see what the lens looks like.
http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?1997636669

wbill

Thank you for the link. This lens indeed looks interesting. I do not mind a max. aperture of f/6.3 as long as it give decent pics at f/8 - f/11.

I've been looking at the FED 100/f6.3 lens recently and one thing I have noted is that there is conflicting info about it as to whether it is rf coupled or not.
Can any of you folks who actually have one settle this?
Thanks,
Rob

I have the Fed 100, and it's coupled. I think there was a version that was not. I love this little lens, it's sharper than most in the 75-100mm range.

How could you figure out which version is with / without RF coupling?
Should I compare the image of the lens with the pictures at the above mentioned site (www.sovietcams.com) or does the serial number of the lens give me a clue?

@goamules: Do you think that its sharpness is almost as good as a Elmar 90mm f/4.0 (both compared at f/8 - f/11)?

If you look at the link in my other message you will see that the first version is rf coupled.
I have that version and it worked fine on my friends M-6, I don't use my film M's anymore.
I just use it on my Ricoh GRX w/ A-12 M module and a back up Nex-3. So there are two version's that can be found one is rf coupled the other is not. Which means both answers are correct. BUT you must remember that the pre-war FED lenses may not couple properly with any Leica RF. It's a try and see if it works properly, which is why I use them on mirrorless cameras.
wbill

I want to use the with my FSU rangefindes. For my LTM Leica(s) I would choose a Leitz Elmar 90 mm f/4.0 or a Canon 100 mm f/3.5. Or are you refering to problems with non-standardised pre war FED lenses?

Regards,
Thomas

 

[agfa100]

Since this lens was only made before WWII and the factory was in the western area of the old USSR it was destroyed when the German's invaded at the start of WWII. Read the history here it's quite interesting.

http://www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm

I THINK that the difference is between version 1 and 2. You can tell them apart by the "pins" on the version 1 lens flange, where version 2 does not have the pins. Look at the picture and you should see them. I have never seen a version 2 so I think it is the one that does not have the rf coupling. I know version 1 does as that's the one I have.

Trying to go by serial number is a issue, the factory was destroyed "no records" plus on one of the more active Ussr forums they ask us to list our serial number and version so they can try and put a picture of how many of these lenses they might have made and which version. So it's a real crap shoot, they also made a 28mm f 4.5 and a 50mm macro and a 50mm 2.0 copy of the Leica Summar as well as the 100mm lens, and a standard 50mm 3.5. The only lens made after the war was the 50mm 3.5. All these pre-war lenses were very well made not like the Post war lenses, they feel very nice and they took their time with the production and it shows.

So far I have a 50mm f3.5, 50mm f2.0 and the 100mm f6.3. I have seen one or two 28mm's for sale but both looked like they dragged them behind a T-34 all the way to Berlin and the price range was 500-600 dollars US too rich for me. As for the 50mm macro lens all I have seen are a few pictures. Good quality Russian camera equipment is getting as hard to find as clean Leica's at fair prices. Plus for so long this stuff had no real value for most people, it took awhile for it to be appreciated.

wbill

 

[Wulfthari]

Thank you all for your replies!

You can also use smaller (western) viewfinder, e.g. the old Canon viewfinders are quite small.

Regards,
Thomas

Also the Soviets made relatively small viewfinders, but they are usually for a single focal length...Steinheil used to make another rotating turret with three viewers for six focal length but I never tried it.

Still it's annoying to focus on the rangefinder and framing on the separate viewer, it's the biggest limit of pre-M rangefinders for me.

 

[goamules]

...@goamules: Do you think that its sharpness is almost as good as a Elmar 90mm f/4.0 (both compared at f/8 - f/11)?

I want to use the with my FSU rangefindes. For my LTM Leica(s) I would choose a Leitz Elmar 90 mm f/4.0 or a Canon 100 mm f/3.5. Or are you refering to problems with non-standardised pre war FED lenses?

Regards,
Thomas

I'll say this, the Elmar 90mm lenses I've had did NOT impress me. They are not sharp at all, compared to the Fed 100/6.3 or Canon 100. If you want a soft, portrait type lens, they'd be very nice, but I'd avoid an Elmar 90 if you want sharp. My Fed 100 is my sharpest 85-100mm lens, and MUCH sharper than an Elmar. Only the Canon 135/3.5 is better, but 3 times larger. You want sharp, I'll give you sharp! Fed 100:

 

[Dez]

The FED lens certainly is tiny, and yes it is capable of very good images. Here is the FED 100 beside the small Elmar 90 and the chunky Canon 100 f2. It is definitely in a size class of its own.



I am just in the process of putting this FED lens up for sale in the Classifieds, if anyone is interested.

Cheers,
Dez