Is this a write off?

R

Richard Marks

Rexel
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Well I was out snapping this morning when in very strong winds at the top of a 1300m hill, my tripod blew over. The attached M8 landed in pretty soft clay, but the force was enough to completely shear the base plate from the body. The plate itself has torn, but a piece of the body material at the other side has also come off. Obviously this was a rather unfortunate accident, but I must say i really do not think the M8 quite cuts it on build quality. Ive had an FM2, Leica R8, Hasselblad, Mamiya and also my trusty M6 all of which have taken many a knock without any trouble. Looks like I might be shooting rather a lot of film whilst my M8 visits Germany for Christmas.

Best wishes


Richard

Bust again 004.jpg

Bust again 003.jpg
 
Yow! Bad luck! The casing does look pretty thin where the it has broken away - I'd say it is designed to be strong enough to hold the baseplate on firmly and take knocks applied to the baseplate, but not to be strong enough to support the stresses involved when attached to a tripod and whacked into the ground.

I'm sure Leica can replace the body - It's up to them as to whether they will do that at a price that makes it feasible. The weakness certainly needs to be brought to their attention.
 
Most unfortunate, indeed. Makes me wonder what else happened inside.

But mostly I think, why does the baseplate come off on an M8? Is that where batteries and memory chips are loaded?

Please excuse my ignorance of such high-tech (and high-priced) gadgetry.
 
I've read about this issue elsewhere; it is unacceptable.

I think this is another reason why I like to use half-cases, and why I don't like tripods.
 
ErikFive said:
Im never going to use a tripod again:). Good luck with the repair. I cant understand why they havent made the thing where you hook the baseplate on like the old bodies. It looks much more fragile on the M8.

DIY ghetto solution would be to use gaffer tape to hold the baseplate on;).
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Yes Erik There is a really good 'heal' on the M6 plate which is obviously reinforced. presumably that has evolved for a reason. Why on earth have they changed it?

I must admit I do not use my film M on a tripod but for lansdcapes with digital it alows me to expose the same shot at different exposures to merge them later if lighting is tricky.

Best wishes


Richard
 
Wow Richard that is very bad luck but it really is unacceptable that it should shear like that. I thought Leicas were supposed to be built like tanks? Here in the US I think a Passport warranty on a film M would cover that kind of damage, but not necessarily on the M8. Please let us know how this goes for you, and good luck!
 
Bad luck, Mark. Sh.. But that design is not good enough. I see on the Leica user forum that many wants another solution - on a future M9 to the bottom plate system than on the M8.

Your M8 will not be easy to fix. If at all possible. I think that Leica should help you out someway. Like offering you a cheap demo model as a compensation.
 
I once didn't tighten my digital 20D sufficently to my tripod. I swung the tripod with the camera attched over my shulder only to notice that it suddenly went pretty light and my camera went crashing on the stony path i was walking on ! To my surprise it was still working when i picked it up, luckely it did't fall on the lens .... Don't be worried about your leicas my friends, any camera will brake if it falls in a unfortunate angle and even cheap plastic cameras will survive if fortuna is on your side.

Mike
 
With a full car coming home from the dacha, ! opened one of the doors and my 1Ds II fell out and rolled down the hill I live in like an apple. The camera was 'on' and fired an exposure and 'chewed' it's viewfinder screen which fell out of it's bracket. The lense, a 28-70 m 2,8L got a loose inner barrel, but could easily be fixed ($ 150). The camera was OK. I still use the screen, which has some black scratches, - difficult to find a new one. And the camera got some ugly scratches here and there. - It's possibly the ugliest 1Ds II in Norway. Much due to that the surface on the 1Ds II is very easily scratched. Much more so than the previous model; 1Ds.
 
Well many thanks for all your sympathy. I feel slighly better!
I think the passport should cover this as it specifies "accidental damage" and fortunately my camera is under 1 year old. It will be interesting to see what they do. Im tempted to say its not fit for purpose. Clearly its a cheaper baseplte design than the film version. The other point is that the tripod bush is now in the centre. With the mounting on the right on film M's the fitting was closest to the reinforced end of the plate.

One thing I eluded to earlier was that I am more likely to use a tripod with digital than film for landscapes. Gabriel we all know you do not like tripods but its pretty useful for digital landscapes with bracketing. (not your chosen subject obviously)To be honest I rarely used my film M for landscapes as at the time i used medium format. My M8 replaced that. There are times when a tripod is handy and I think the baseplate design is not up to scratch.

Erik your picture makes the point well. But also the black covering on the M8 is very poor quality compared to the stuff on my M6. The coating has just about worn through to the metal on the M8. This is due to repeatedly taking it in and out of the Leica 1/2 case.

Michael M I take your point but I have had a lot of cameras and travelled very widely and everything else has taken the knocks. Also the tripod was about 2ft 6 height and the ground was pretty soft. All I am saying is that the M8 is not wearing that well.

Olsen I will look carefully before bidding on a used 1ds from Norway!

I think what I am more worried about is that i can not easilly see any way that one could modify the existing M8's to strengthen the base plate. Perhaps we need some response from leica that this is a design fault and that it should be repaired even if out of warranty (some chance). Tim Isaacs where are you now?

Regards


Richard
 
Well, the M8 is not simply an M7 w/the guts replaced w/a sensor + extra electronics. While the outer shape resembles other M cameras, Leica evidently had to replace a lot of the old metal parts w/plastic &/or lighter metals. I'm not an engineer so I can't say whether or not it was techically or economically possible to build a more robust design, but there were probably significant constraints imposed by costs & the decision to stick w/the old form factor. Personally, I think they should have abandoned the bottom loading (especially since the bottom on the M8 doesn't even open on the same side as the film M's!).

Best of luck on getting yours fixed (& getting a loaner replacement in the interim).

Richard Marks said:
Yes Erik There is a really good 'heal' on the M6 plate which is obviously reinforced. presumably that has evolved for a reason. Why on earth have they changed it?
Richard
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furcafe said:
Well, the M8 is not simply an M7 w/the guts replaced w/a sensor + extra electronics. While the outer shape resembles other M cameras, Leica evidently had to replace a lot of the old metal parts w/plastic &/or lighter metals. I'm not an engineer so I can't say whether or not it was techically or economically possible to build a more robust design, but there were probably significant constraints imposed by costs & the decision to stick w/the old form factor. Personally, I think they should have abandoned the bottom loading (especially since the bottom on the M8 doesn't even open on the same side as the film M's!).
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You are too kind!
The whole marketing shpeal about the launch was it "does not just feel like an M, it is an M series" remember?

I think the build is cheaper. I can not see any reason why the base plate design would need to be changed. its noweher near the digital stuff.

Richard
 
Richard, if anything, you'll come out of this scrap with fate a wiser, more cautious photographer. I'm sure Leica will fix it, but keep your expectations low about a change in design. However, given what you paid and that it's still under warranty, they should let you have a loaner. Check with the store or seller from whom you purchased the camera.

Take care and good luck! :)
 
Ouch!

Ouch!

Richard sorry to hear about your misfortune. My M8 went over on a tripod about a month ago and two passersby gasped as I mentally resigned myself to picking up a rattling box of electronics. Much to my surprise it didn't have a scratch on it and I've had no electronic problems or loss of image quality after a month of constant use.:angel:
 
I think that where the impact occured was highly instrumental in the resulting breakage and no reflection on Leica at all. The digital camera chassis by necessity is made of a material that will fracture under certain stresses. Magnesium alloy is extremely rigid and dimensionally stable under temperature changes which is very necessary with the M8 ... but it's not malleable at all.

The fact that you can drop a Japanese DSLR onto concrete and probably pick it up and use it has nothing to do with the M8 and it's build quality ... or any perceived weakness in it's design. I just think that at that particular moment all the planets were in the wrong position and random physics took over. :)
 
At least you know how the damage happened. I took my M8 out of my 1/2 case (Luigi) after a concert, lowered the monitor flap, and saw that the LCD was fractured ---looking much like a damaged laptop screen. Leica New Jersey had it back in a few weeks. Repair was $320, which seemed reasonable. My 1 yr warranty did not cover this damage, but my camera insurance did.
 
Keith said:
I think that where the impact occured was highly instrumental in the resulting breakage and no reflection on Leica at all. The digital camera chassis by necessity is made of a material that will fracture under certain stresses. Magnesium alloy is extremely rigid and dimensionally stable under temperature changes which is very necessary with the M8 ... but it's not malleable at all.

The fact that you can drop a Japanese DSLR onto concrete and probably pick it up and use it has nothing to do with the M8 and it's build quality ... or any perceived weakness in it's design. I just think that at that particular moment all the planets were in the wrong position and random physics took over. :)
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Keith why is it a necessity that it should fracture for a digital camera?
I have to disagree that this is no reflection on Leica. If you look at the slot in the base plate that inserts into the elevated lug on the left side of the body, the thickness of metal on the upper aspect of the slot is about 1mm. Its just not enough if the camera is tripod mounted as the whole weight of the camera and lens (and possibly even flash gun) is enough to tear it very easilly. Just compare it with the film design. Clearly that 'heal' on the baseplate evolved for a reason.

I am not blaming Leica for the fact that I was caught out by a sudden gust of wind at the top of a big hill. I do agree that the 'planets were in the wrong position etc.' but a good design should be able to take a little adversity in its stride. Leica are keen to appeal to the pro market. Professional equipmment should be able to take the knocks as often one is working very quickly to get shots and safety of equipment (and even self) may be secondary to getting the images. A film M definately meets this. Im now not so sure about the M8. Do not get me wrong I adore my M8 and sold every other bit of camera gear i own to acquire it. I am simply objective about my experiences, give credit where its due, and keen to point out limitations of design for future improvement. Defending something that is inherently badly designed does not do Leica or its customers any long term favours.

I think I will stay in doors today!


Richard
 
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