Is this a write off?

I noticed your coment about temperature ... with the wind chill factor who knows what the temeperature of the metal was ... very low I would suspect. Composite metals like these have increased brittleness when chilled.

You had no hope! :p
 
Keith said:
I noticed your coment about temperature ... with the wind chill factor who knows what the temeperature of the metal was ... very low I would suspect. Composite metals like these have increased brittleness when chilled.

You had no hope! :p
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Dear Keith

I think that it is common in accidents that a number of different factors all conspire and that it is the sum effect which does the damage. I think I was a little careless and a little unlucky. I have been very lucky over many years with camera gear and maybe yesterday my luck was up. I still harp back to the fact that all my other gear has never had a problem. Yashica FR, Nikon FM2 Nikon 90FX Nikon F100 Nikon D1X Hasselblad 503CW x2 Mamiya 7II Mamiya RZII 5x4 Leica MP Leica M6 Leica R8. I have worked in developing countries, travelled in Africa India China South America. Goodness knows how many knocks and bumps and dodgy baggage handling and all unscathed. I have had gear fall onto rocks, smash into any number of solid objects and it just makes the M8 seem a bit weedy by comparison. The only other mishap I can recall was a fracture of the connector of a Nikon SB28 Flashgun. They are actually designed to snap at the linkage with the hot shoe specifically to avoid tearing the hot shoe. An easy repair.

Incidentally in my day job as an anaesthetist, all our medical equipment has to pass a 'drop test''. It has to be able to hit the deck from 5 feet and still carry on working.

Best wishes


Richard
 
waileong said:
Hey, what's the passport warranty for, right?
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Yes I guess that is partly what goes into the costs of an M8. I have spoken to Leica UK today and it is covered by the passport (fortunately). They are not sure whether its repair or replace until they get the camera.

Best wishes

Richard
 
Richard Marks said:
Dear Keith

I think that it is common in accidents that a number of different factors all conspire and that it is the sum effect which does the damage. I think I was a little careless and a little unlucky.

Richard
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You are right there, Richard. Mine was in a far more heavy fall which flattened the baseplate (and knocked out the shutter, dislodged the sensor, bent the top cover and twisted a Summicron 35 asph) and the body was completely unmarked.
 
Keith said:
I noticed your coment about temperature ... with the wind chill factor who knows what the temeperature of the metal was ... very low I would suspect. Composite metals like these have increased brittleness when chilled.

You had no hope! :p
Click to expand...

The cause for wind chill is evaporating humidity thus cooling the surface even further. For this additional cooling you have to be either a human (or animal) or the material has to be wet. A dry M8 cannot be colder than the surronding air.
 
Well my camera was sent to leica UK just over 1 week ago. Its current status is "in transit". Apparently transit resources are stretched at the moment as there are huge returns of Digilux 2's (a recognised fault) and this is causing delays.
I have every confidence that Leica will eventually fix things, but they are unable to give me any idea of time scale.

Richard
 
I wouldn't expect it to be less than 3 months, given my experience with major repairs at Leica USA. If it takes less than 10 weeks, count yourself lucky.
 
Well Stuart, I fear you may be right.
I have spoken to Leica UK this afternoon. They rather think my camera has not actually left the UK yet. Apparently in order to keep the costs down they need a full load before embarking.

I understand that in addition to the passport system, Leica are planning to introduce a tariff system for those jobs which are more urgent. It is currently being trialled in Germany but may be rolled out to the EU next year. This is interesting, but rather devalues the passport idea. I presumed that the cost of the passport was built into the price of the initial purchase. Personally i would be prepared to pay to get my camera sorted and if as things stand it really comes to 3 months it is a very considerable loss of use.

What do others think?

Richard
 
I think it's hard to believe that Leica doesn't have an expedited pro service that makes sure people have cameras in their hands when they need them.

I've never had to wait two or three months for things to get sorted with any other manufacturer - and stories like this (whether exception or rule) don't do much for my faith in Leica's ability to support new camera systems.

I can't wait until Youxin can work on m8's ;)
 
They do have an expedited pro service. You have to be a pro though. They want tear sheets.
 
Well, a mate of mine aged 55 was foolish enough to take up (field, for North Americans :D) hockey again. He turned left, his right leg stayed put on the ground: one shattered hip and pelvis. Bad design? The moral being: if one applies a lever, forces get beyond engineering limits very easily. Had the baseplate held, you might well have ripped out your tripod screw.
 
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StuartR said:
They do have an expedited pro service. You have to be a pro though. They want tear sheets.
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Ah - well that's good then. I hadn't anything about it - but then I don't have much in the way of Leica equipment either.
 
jaapv said:
Well, a mate of mine aged 55 was foolish enough to take up (field, for North Americans :D) hockey again. He turned left, his right leg stayed put on the ground: one shattered hip and pelvis. Bad design? The moral being: if one applies a lever, forces get beyond engineering limits very easily. Had the baseplate held, you might well have ripped out your tripod screw.
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Dear Jaaap

I am sorry to hear about your friend.

I do however think the base plate could be improved. (Just make it like the film M again would be a start. ) Why on earth was it altered?

Magnesium is particularly prone to metal fatigue and I would not mind betting in a year or two this might emerge as a real problem. There is a very thin strip of metal supporting all the weight. Jaap you are right about levers, but with the current design, having moved the tripod mount to the centre, there is a greater leverage excerted at the ends when rotational forces are applied to to the body relative to the base plate. The shape of the retaining slot is also an issue as the square is less strong mechanically than the previous circular one.

So we have a thin magnesium body, a base plate with a tiny thin retaining slot, weakened by its square shape, and an increase in the potential leverage on this weak point. As you say anything will break if sufficient leverage is applied. What i am saying is that the leverage about the retainer has been increased, whilst at the same time its strength has been reduced. This is the 'double whammy'.

Incidentally if the base plate had held and ripped out the tripod socket that would have been fine. All I would have to do is send for a new base plate. As things are, I need a new camera body as well.

Best wishes


Richard
 
Don't get me wrong, Richard, I quite concur that the old design was more robust. And more elegant too, imo
 
Dearest Jaap

I may have miss interpreted your post. The 'take home' i got was a kind of 'do not blame the equipment'. I dont blame my camera for its accidental trauma any more than I blame myself for letting go, or the wind for blowing at the wrong moment! But I can not stop harking back to the fact that I have never used a camera that is as flimsy as this one and its also the most money that I have ever spent. I was a bit careless and a bit unlucky in what happened, but this M8 compares unfavourably with all of my previous film cameras. (My Yashica FR bought for my 13th birthday 30 years ago still works fine and that has taken some serious punishment).

I am going to be using my M8 very differently when eventually I get it back. Its a wonderful machine, but I do not have confidence that it can take serious use and abuse. This will detract from my enjoyment to some extent. Leica have been very keen to max the "it does not just look like and M. IT IS an M " but its a somewhat more fragile version.

On a positive note its doing me good to spend a bit more time in my dark room.

Best wishes

Richard
 
Richard Marks said:
Dearest Jaap

I may have miss interpreted your post. The 'take home' i got was a kind of 'do not blame the equipment'. I dont blame my camera for its accidental trauma any more than I blame myself for letting go, or the wind for blowing at the wrong moment! But I can not stop harking back to the fact that I have never used a camera that is as flimsy as this one and its also the most money that I have ever spent. I was a bit careless and a bit unlucky in what happened, but this M8 compares unfavourably with all of my previous film cameras. (My Yashica FR bought for my 13th birthday 30 years ago still works fine and that has taken some serious punishment).

I am going to be using my M8 very differently when eventually I get it back. Its a wonderful machine, but I do not have confidence that it can take serious use and abuse. This will detract from my enjoyment to some extent. Leica have been very keen to max the "it does not just look like and M. IT IS an M " but its a somewhat more fragile version.

On a positive note its doing me good to spend a bit more time in my dark room.

Best wishes

Richard
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No Richard, it was rather a "don't worry you were very unlucky and it is not typical"post. I broke the magnesium on an M4 by a 1 m fall and it stayed intact when my M8 fell six times as hard, go figure... - so really use the thing and just be careful with tripods. Tripods are not M-style, after all;)

Btw, I'm playing around with my M3 as well at the moment :)
 
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Dear JAAP

Many thanks
Im now working on the theory that it should not happen to me again!
I agree M's are not really tripod cameras. The reason for it was in order to fiddle with things in terms of ballancing land and sky. I generally expose 2 different RAW images and merge them later. If things are not in exaclty the same place it creates problems. I certainly have never needed a 'pod to avoid camera shake with an M. Maybe M's should not have a tripod mount! (and some say no flash gun mount either)

Best wishes


Richard
 
Well just to report back my camera was not "a write off"
The lower half of the casing has been replaced and I suspect also the shutter and sensor.

I have to say allowing for the Christmas season, the turn around has been pretty impressive. The camera was sent on 6th december and arrived back yesterday.

The only documentation sent with it says it has been 'serviced / repaired' and the works have a 12 month warranty, although it does not say what has been done and therefore its a bit difficult to know what the warranty means. Slightly irritating but nice to get it back. At least the light was not that great over the last month any way!

Best wishes


Richard
Laughter.jpg
 
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