Is this Summar worth using?

[02Pilot]

Depends on the coating; as a general rule, the older the coating, the more at risk it will be. I use it without hesitation on uncoated lenses. On coated lenses, it's a judgement call as to whether it's worth risking the coating versus repairing the damage. If you fix the damage and the coating survives, it's a bonus.

 

[raid]

I will inspect my old lenses to see if any needs some cleaning of the front glass.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Here's a thread that I started when I had the Xenon lens -- you can see the difference the cleaning does to the photos: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148430

And I have to post a correction -- the Xenon lens was NOT coated, but the Sonnar lens I just cleaned is. Didn't do any harm to the Sonnar coating, but of course you are doing this at your own risk if you choose to take my advice!

 

[raid]

Thanks, Vince.

Is this a basic application to the front of the lens without actually removing any elements? I looks that way. Great idea. I have a Rigid Summicron that may benefit from an application of this magic cream.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Yes just a basic application to the front element, as that's the element that would be most prone to marks, wear etc. No need to take anything apart.

 

[raid]

I have 1-3 lenses with messed up fronts. I will get some cream.

 

[traveler_101]

I guess you mean Yamazaki-san. Polishing and coating the front element of a Summar is one of his specialties. He says in the article linked below that there is some tolerance built into optical designs so it's possible to remove a thin layer (up to 5/100 mm) and still retain the same optical properties.
http://camerafan.jp/cc_sp.php?i=152

Thank you for posting. I am sure Mr. Yamazaki must first appraise a lens to see if refinishing is possible within tolerances. Fungus can deeply scar a surface.

 

[Highway 61]

I have 1-3 lenses with messed up fronts. I will get some cream.

Polish like that will be of no effect at all on scratched front elements.

To re-polish scratched front elements you need to use cerium oxyde powder (the jewellers' "rouge"), a polishing machine, and an optical gauge dedicated to your lens front element curvature so that you don't destroy its optical properties.

 

[02Pilot]

Polish like that will be of no effect at all on scratched front elements.

To re-polish scratched front elements you need to use cerium oxyde powder (the jewellers' "rouge"), a polishing machine, and an optical gauge dedicated to your lens front element curvature so that you don't destroy its optical properties.

My experience suggests otherwise. While the polish will not fully smooth the surface, it will remove microscopic contaminants from the irregularities that will result in an overall improvement in clarity.

A simple comparison is with an older car's windshield. While it may be pitted from abrasion over many years, a thorough cleaning (I've always used Bon Ami, which is a very mild abrasive made from eggshells, on vintage windshields) will yield substantial improvements in visibility.

While windshields will require periodic treatment due to exposure, lenses should show benefits for quite some time unless they are heavily exposed to contaminants.

 

[Dez]

I have had work done by these guys on a collapsible Summicron front element. They did a good job, but are expensive.

http://www.focalpointlens.com/fp_intro.html

Personally, I doubt if the expense would be worth it for a Summar.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I've often wondered if a matt black paint used to fill the scratch would work. Any thoughts? Anyone?

Regards, David

 

[traveler_101]

Vince Lupo's willingness to tackle the problem by finding his own method of cleaning is admirable. But often the problem with old lenses often goes beneath surface degradation. My lens was professionally cleaned and it made only a marginal difference. No reason why the OP shouldn't try the Lupo method, I would think..

 

[Whateverist]

I did the chrome polish trick but the lens may be too far gone for even that to have a noticeable effect.

 

[Vince Lupo]

I did the chrome polish trick but the lens may be too far gone for even that to have a noticeable effect.

Did it make any difference at all? How many times did you try it?

 

[Whateverist]

Did it make any difference at all? How many times did you try it?

Twice. DOes the effect stack when you do it multiple times?

 

[Vince Lupo]

Yes it does get better if you do it a few times. However, go gently!

 

[Highway 61]

As written above, metal polish (the same with gelcoat polish, because they're fairly identical polishing pastes, both being close to your common toothpaste afterall as for their polishing compound trapped into the paste) will be of no effect on scratched front elements.

All this polish can do is to help cleaning the lens by removing some dried-up fingerprints grease and all kinds of old grime (which can be cleaned as well with isopropylic alcohol or acetone).

Il will also remove the coatings in case of old lenses having been single coated.

But it will NOT re-polish the etched glass surface and thus will NOT remove the scratches caused by hundreds of unproper cleanings (also called "cleaning marks").

 

[Simon Bruxelles]

99 per cent of the Summar's poor reputation is due to the "soft" front element...

99 per cent of the Summar's poor reputation is due to the "soft" front element...

and the habit of photographers of cleaning it with their ties.
I have three Summars all in pristine condition and they take excellent photographs, even at maximum aperture.
The Summar was significantly more expensive than the undisputedly excellent F3.5cm Elmar and had photographers noticed a huge difference in quality you can be sure they would have made a noise about it.
Most examples of the Summar you find today are hazy or scratched but it is worth tracking down a good one. It is probably my favourite lens though it has to be handled with care.

 

[jonmanjiro]

I guess you mean Yamazaki-san. Polishing and coating the front element of a Summar is one of his specialties. He says in the article linked below that there is some tolerance built into optical designs so it's possible to remove a thin layer (up to 5/100 mm) and still retain the same optical properties.
http://camerafan.jp/cc_sp.php?i=152

Yesterday I dropped by Yamazaki Optics to deliver a Summicron 35mm V1 and Summilux 35mm pre-ASPH for repair work. Really interesting place in the middle of a suburbia about a 10 minute walk from JR Higashi-Nakano train station. Both lenses have haze that couldn't be removed by other lenses repairers so it will be interesting to see how Yamazaki-san goes with them. He was confident he could clean the Summicron but wasn't sure about the Summilux and said he needed to open it up to take a closer look. I'll report back when I pick up the lenses in about a month. I'll also take my Summar along next time to get it appraised. The only sign to let you know you've found the right place is this tiny hand written sign hanging crooked on the gate! It reads:

Yamazaki Optics
Photography lens research center
(please go around the back)