Is this the worst...

jesse1dog said:
Who makes sensors for the Leica digital cameras?
Has this changed through the years?
And have Leica branded cameras made by firms like Fuji and Panasonic the same issues? I've probably missed something in a thread somewhere but I'm curious.
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The M8 and M9 sensor was made by Kodak, taken over by Truesense and now ON.
The Digilux2 sensor was made by Sony and had a nearly 100% fail rate. Panasonic hassled their customers before replacing, but Leica did so without any problem. X-series cameras use Sony sensors, the M240 sensor is designed by Cmosis and made by STmicro, the SL and Q sensors are made by Towerjazz (Israeli Panasonic affiliate.) Other models I do not know offhand.
 
Just for the record: the corrosion issue on the M9 is caused by our old friend, the IR filter which has to be thin. The original filter used by the Kodak sensor could be kept thin because a special glass type is used with high IR opacity. However, this glass is corrosion-prone. Originally this was countered by layering it with corrosion-proof glass. For the M9 this was impossible because of the extra thickness, so Kodak applied an anti-corrosion coating instead. It turned out that this coating could have micro-porosities, allowing corrosion to attack the IR filter in a percentage of cases. Leica and ON have developed a filter glass to use on the replacement sensors that is corrosion-proof without coating and use those for the replacement sensors.
 
So not simply a replacement sensor, an improved sensor unit. I have my doubts Canon will do that for free. Well, as you say jaapv, I guess you get what you pay for. :rolleyes:
 
johannielscom said:
Granted, a Sony A7 isn't rf focusing but in manual mode (as we all agree, the only 'real photographers' mode) but it's as elemental as it gets if you steer away from the focus magnification, and why would you want to do that? I shoot a Canon 50mm 1.2 wide open on it and with focus magnification it nails the focus. A Summilux or Noctilux on the A7 might possibly be focused more precise than on a real rf focusing system?


Huh? What sensor flares? Haven't seen anything in over 4K shots and haven't heard of this before either.
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Sorry, I should have said sensor reflections. And it is miserable.
Happens with bright light sources in the frame. It's not exactly a mystery but a major complaint.

There's plenty of info out there, just google.

http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/a7r-and-sensor-reflection_topic104628.html

http://erphotoreview.com/wordpress/?p=4431

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/com...sony-canon/20mm/DSC00081-christmas-lights.jpg

MF even w/o magnification is much much slower than using a real RF. Unless you are at f8 and just care about ball park. Been there, tried that.

The A7II and A7RII are a great improvement over the originals (M8->M9 anyone?) but now there are reports of the sensor stabilizer failing and the sensor unit being permanently off axis.

Bottom line, once you have left the domain of film, with a fresh glorious new sensor for every shot!, stuff happens with digi cameras.
 
You can't hide anymore. With instant news channels, the internet and forums like this and social media sites, good things, bad things get exposed. Instantly. Read the comments here. And there, everywhere.

Quality matters. Some manufacturers recognize this while others, for various reasons, don't.

I bought a Toyota Corolla in 1986, drove it until 1995 then our children used it while attending high school and college. One day my son said, "Dad, the car runs great but after a rain when I drive and if there is some water on the road, my pants get wet!" Sold the car in 2002. In 16 years it never broke down and never needed to have major work performed by a mechanic.

That's what I think Leica should be, like Toyota.
 
johannielscom said:
Wouldn't phrase it like Chris did but the question remains, why spend so much money on something that cannot be relied on? Truly baffles me. Just a thought, doesn't beg for an answer here, since it's off-topic...
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So, don't spend any money on anything. Then you end up with more money that you can rely on. :)

Things fail. In the meantime, the Leica M8 has been the most reliable digital interchangeable-lens camera I have ever owned. My Canons have had a lot of issues, as have my Sonys (the a6000 is so far problem-free). Things fail.

I shot some pretty nice pictures with the M8 while I had it but it never grew on me and I was happy I'd already traded it away when the sensors became irreplaceable and the coffee stain issues started to appear.
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The M8 sensors can be replaced. It is the LCD screen which cannot be replaced. People sending in their working cameras for the coffee stain issue which is purely cosmetic, and has disappeared over time for some users, greatly contributed to this. Of course, Leica should have procured enough replacement units to keep the camera fully serviceable for a longer time. I wish there was a pile of coffee stained screens somewhere that could be used in case there is need for some real service.
 
Kodak use to make the sensors. That business was bought by another company. Then yet another company purchased the sensor business. It's changed hands twice since Kodak's demise.

I will speculate these companies make the sensor be... that is just the CCD photo-diode array and control circuitry. The Leica adds the micro lenses (to optimize light entering the pin-diodes for Leica lens optics), the Bayer color filter array (the R, G and B filter materials strongly influence image quality) and then installs the IR filter cover glass (almost certainly outsourced). These are assembled to make what everyone calls the 'sensor'.
 
jaapv and willie 901 thanks for giving an old timer some glimmer of understanding about sensor manufacture and Leica. I often wonder how anything works these days when so many vested interests are involved.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Never seen anything like that. I can't afford an insanely great camera like a Leica, so I use my lowly Canon 5DmkII. That low-quality trash gives flawless images every time, and has for the entire four years I have owned it. Too bad I'm not wealthy like you guys, I could own a camera whose sensors corrode!
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5dIIs fail too. I was shooting for NATO in 2012 and I had a complete shutter fail during the shoot. Less than 35K. Also had a 1Ds MkIII show up from CPS DOA.

I dumped all my Canon gear last year for Leica M (no regrets) and I am far from wealthy.

I do miss CPS. Canons CPS program is top notch and was so convenient after they opened in Itasca. We all know about Leica NJ....
 
My digital stuff is all Canon. Still have as a backup to a backup a 20D that I bought new in 2004 from B & H. As I recall, I paid about $1200 for the body. Never has failed. Still use the original battery. My others, the same tune. My portrait you see here was made by my coach with a Canon 10D. Looks OK doesn't it? Especially considering the subject! It was made at sunset on a beach in Sarasota Florida. I'd hate to be at a fancy gig and have equipment failure. I guess I was just lucky.
 
I've owned and used professionally eight canon 1 series bodies and three 5 series only one has needed any kind of repair and that was a 1dx under warranty, I've owned two digital Leica Ms which have been used not very often for work more high days and holidays both have been back to Leica my M9 twice..........
 
Yes. You were just lucky. Any camera, lens, airplane engine, or basically anything with moving parts can fail at any time.
You either accept that fact or you move back to the cave. I'm a happy Fuji X camera user. Out of 6 bodies that I own I've had one failure and it was 10 months after purchase. I've had two lenses fail. One after 6 months and one straight out of the box. Am I going to bail on the system because something broke? No. I'm going to get them fixed and keep shooting.
If you own anything that is complicated you better have a back up.
 
I have owned Canons for decades and still have 3 of my old F-1s. Those cameras were tanks. First digital was 2006 original 5Ds. Didn't bail on my Canons because of failure though. Just prefer shooting with Leica M.

I have had no issues with my Leica M digitals at all. Sent the MM back to Leica to have them inspect the sensor (no issue) and full clean, adjust and check at no charge.

I have had my color M digital bodies for almost a year with no issues (knock on wood) and by this time and no issues with my MM (4years). I use these cameras the same as I did my Canons and I had already had far more problems with my Canons than I have with my Leica's during the same time frame. All of this stuff will have problems at some point.

If it feeds the family BACK UP is KEY.
 
rybolt said:
Yes. You were just lucky. Any camera, lens, airplane engine, or basically anything with moving parts can fail at any time.
You either accept that fact or you move back to the cave. I'm a happy Fuji X camera user. Out of 6 bodies that I own I've had one failure and it was 10 months after purchase. I've had two lenses fail. One after 6 months and one straight out of the box. Am I going to bail on the system because something broke? No. I'm going to get them fixed and keep shooting.
If you own anything that is complicated you better have a back up.
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I don't think its about luck Canon and Nikon are just more robust cameras that are built for professional use.
 
Fraser said:
I don't think its about luck Canon and Nikon are just more robust cameras that are built for professional use.
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Some models have a higher Mean Time Before Failure but any camera can fail at any time. Only the higher end Canon and Nikon cameras are manufactured to a higher degree of durability.
Saying that a camera is built for professional use is meaningless. The Fuji S5 was made for the professional wedding and portrait market and in it's day it was the camera of choice for those purposes. It was a Nikon consumer grade camera with a Sony chip that had an 80% fail rate.
 
FWIW I read Chriscrawfordphoto's original comment as rather tongue-in-cheek.
But then again I don't own a Leica camera...

Chris
 
rybolt said:
Some models have a higher Mean Time Before Failure but any camera can fail at any time. Only the higher end Canon and Nikon cameras are manufactured to a higher degree of durability.
Saying that a camera is built for professional use is meaningless. The Fuji S5 was made for the professional wedding and portrait market and in it's day it was the camera of choice for those purposes. It was a Nikon consumer grade camera with a Sony chip that had an 80% fail rate.
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I'm talking about single digit Nikons and Canons 1d and d4 etc, they are built for professional use, thats why you pay a premium its not for the specs its for the durability.
 
And like I said I had a 1DsMkIII that I got from CPS that showed up DOA. Even those will break. And another one failed while using. Like it's already been said they all can and at one time will fail. That's why if you are a pro you know to always have back up for whatever equipment you are shooting with.
 
rybolt said:
Yes. You were just lucky. Any camera, lens, airplane engine, or basically anything with moving parts can fail at any time.
You either accept that fact or you move back to the cave. I'm a happy Fuji X camera user. Out of 6 bodies that I own I've had one failure and it was 10 months after purchase. I've had two lenses fail. One after 6 months and one straight out of the box. Am I going to bail on the system because something broke? No. I'm going to get them fixed and keep shooting.
If you own anything that is complicated you better have a back up.
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I think that comment is meaningless. Offcource you prepare for worst case, your camera fails. What makes sense are the statistics, anybody know them?
 
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