rybolt
Well-known
My guess (and it's based on 36 years of owning camera stores and dealing with the professional, law enforcement, medical and military markets) is that the fail rate on MOST cameras is very low compared to the number sold. That still doesn't mean that any camera or lens can't fail at any time. If it fails you get it repaired or replaced and you go back to work.
gunston
Established
confirmed !!!
these are scratches
these are scratches
MIkhail
-
willie_901
Veteran
Yes... first came very light, inconsequential scratches. However the scratches provided a path for moisture to inevitably degrade the IR filter layer.
The water corrosion patterns matches the original initially harmless scratch patterns. If the IR filter layer was not chemically labile to water, the scratches would most likely be moot.
IR filter degradation from water exposure can also occur on scratch-free sensor cover glasses. Cover-glass scratches just make the problem (water labile IR filter materials) worse.
:: Mark
Well-known
Since 2002 I have owned and used 12 different digital cameras, spanning compact cameras to professional digital bodies. Of these only the first suffered a failure due to manufacturing problems - a Canon G2 with a failed flash. Of the remaining cameras, most have been completely reliable other than for my stupidity (dropping cameras, getting drowned in seawater, etc).
Most manufacturers are highly motivated to avoid problems in production, because returned product costs them a *lot* of money. Problems are mostly rare, but they do happen - Canon 5D cameras with mirrors that drop off, Nikons spraying oil on to the sensors, and Olympus with disintegrating strap lugs and inflammable viewfinders (the original E-M1...).
Leica has two problems. Their production volumes are low, and cycle times for models are long. This means it takes time for problems found in use to be reported and clearly understood - problems which are compounded by Leica's apparent lack of experience with electronic and software design.
What matters is how they respond. Leica generally stands by its product, although repair times are embarrassingly and frustratingly slow. Leica engineering is also getting better - the newer digital M cameras are finally offering reasonable reliability, even if the quality and functionality is wildly at odds with the cost of the cameras.
The M8 IR issues and M9/M-E corrosion issues are symptoms of a company that it out of its depth when it comes to digital camera design. But Leica are learning, standing up to their past errors, and newer cameras are not repeating the same mistakes.
The IR filter corrosion is a design error, period. Hopefully Leica will repair or replace the camera at not cost to the user...
Most manufacturers are highly motivated to avoid problems in production, because returned product costs them a *lot* of money. Problems are mostly rare, but they do happen - Canon 5D cameras with mirrors that drop off, Nikons spraying oil on to the sensors, and Olympus with disintegrating strap lugs and inflammable viewfinders (the original E-M1...).
Leica has two problems. Their production volumes are low, and cycle times for models are long. This means it takes time for problems found in use to be reported and clearly understood - problems which are compounded by Leica's apparent lack of experience with electronic and software design.
What matters is how they respond. Leica generally stands by its product, although repair times are embarrassingly and frustratingly slow. Leica engineering is also getting better - the newer digital M cameras are finally offering reasonable reliability, even if the quality and functionality is wildly at odds with the cost of the cameras.
The M8 IR issues and M9/M-E corrosion issues are symptoms of a company that it out of its depth when it comes to digital camera design. But Leica are learning, standing up to their past errors, and newer cameras are not repeating the same mistakes.
The IR filter corrosion is a design error, period. Hopefully Leica will repair or replace the camera at not cost to the user...
Talus
pan sin sal
I just noticed some dead pixels on my M9P last night. I called Leica NJ today and the nice lady at the customer service desk said that the sensor will be cleaned or replaced free of charge. Yay. But, it's an 8 week turnaround. Boo.
I love my Leica and having just returned from a vacation in Canada with my girlfriend, I am happy to have had the M9 to capture it. I've considered going back to a film M body, but the fact that I can review my entire trip the night I got back instead of having to develop rolls and rolls of film makes me appreciate my Digital M even more. It'll be a small annoyance to not have the camera for 2 months but I'm definitely more than willing to wait.
I love my Leica and having just returned from a vacation in Canada with my girlfriend, I am happy to have had the M9 to capture it. I've considered going back to a film M body, but the fact that I can review my entire trip the night I got back instead of having to develop rolls and rolls of film makes me appreciate my Digital M even more. It'll be a small annoyance to not have the camera for 2 months but I'm definitely more than willing to wait.
f16sunshine
Moderator
@Talus
I had 2 very good experiences with Leica NJ.
Stay in touch with them once they get your camera... it may go faster than expected.
They seem to have a good crew there. All very friendly.
I had 2 very good experiences with Leica NJ.
Stay in touch with them once they get your camera... it may go faster than expected.
They seem to have a good crew there. All very friendly.
De_Corday
Eternal Student
I see and agree with your point, but the S5 was the D200, right? Consumer grade by name, sure, but it had about all the same features my trusty D700 has in terms of weather sealing, metal body, and overall robust build... it was effectively a compact pro build. That was one of Sony's last CCD chips, no?
Talus
pan sin sal
Huss
Veteran
Interesting, my brother had that happen to him too. On the plus side, he was given a new one, no questions asked, no sending the broken one to be fixed etc etc.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
CPS service is second to none. Leica NJ from my experience ahhh not so much. I called, I wrote emails, etc without much response at all and I can be very persistent My point was that all camera brands have failures as do anything that is mechanical. They will fail from time time.
Fraser
Well-known
Cps with a warranty repair told me just drop the camera at a cps repair centre, the nearest one was London I live near Edinburgh !
Then at first they refused to pay for pick up and it was going to cost me £100 to send a 6month old £5000 camera they eventually agreed to arrange a courier. Considering I'm at the highest level of cps membership. Where as Leica even though the repairs take longer they sort out all the courier stuff and make the whole process much easier (in Europe anyway not sure about US).
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
As this is on the internet I don't think statistics come into it.
Once one has failed, (even a 1950's car that's 60 to 65 years old and has probably been standing in a field most of the time,) they all get a reputation for being unreliable...
I've read about almost every make and model of camera failing and I still don't believe that they are all totally unreliable. Mostly it has to do with the wicked owners, sellers and stupid fools who think they can tackle a repair at home.
Regards, David
airfrogusmc
Veteran
In the US if you are a platinum member shipping is picked up by Canon both ways and it usually takes less than a week both ways including shipping time.
I live in Chicago area so I would call Itasca (another Chicago suburb where there is a CPS location) and they would have loaner equipment waiting when I dropped off my repairs and my stuff was usually fixed in a day to two.
I do miss that level of service. I think Leica repair in Europe is a much different experience than it is in the US.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I think all of this stuff is incredible reliable but none of it is 100%. Never has been.