Issue with 35mm lens focusing on M3

[guty86]

Hello to everyone. I use to read the forum from time to time but i think i've nevera postes here before.

I would like to ask you about a issue i'm having and can't find any info on the net.

First, a little of history. I'm an analog shooter, and about 3 years ago i bought a Leica M3 (DS first versión, 1955) that i've been using since then with excellent resulta with a Summitar 50 f2 (ltm, adapted), a Summarit 50 1.5 (M mount), an Elmar 90 f4 collapsable (m mount) and a Culminar 85 f2.8 (ltm, adapted). All ok. Yep, it's a cheap package bit i like the carácter of that old glass

Note that these ltm lenses works as fine in a Leica IiIf I also own.

Well, the issue i'm having os with a ltm Summaron 35 3.5. as an ltm lens, It has no googles for the M3 viewfinder, but that's not the issue. When i use this lens on the M3, the ramgefinder is lost at close focus distances, somewhere between 2m and 1,5m. The rangefinder patch just disappears from the viewfinder. The same lens focusses OK on the IIIf, and even on the M3 at far distance (~2m to Infinity).

So o would like to ask if It"s "normal" and a googled 35 os mandatory (not just advisable) for my camera, ir if could ve some type of issue with the adapters. I use type 1 adapters (compatible with Infinity lock lenses), and have tried with a 50/75, 28/90 and 35/135 from 2 or 3 brands.

Ant idea of what's happening?

Thanks in advance

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

No idea why the rangefinder patch should disappear, but I use a Zeiss Biogon 35mm on my M3 with no issue other than the lack of framelines, and have used a 35mm Summaron f3.5 plus adapter with no issue. It's not at all required to use the goggled lens - many people would and still do use 35mm shoe mounted viewfinders on the M3.

I had a defective M2 which would not bring up framelines with a 90mm but that still got the patch. Hopefully someone will have a better understanding of how the focus patch could disappear - is your finger covering the small window at that focal point (a guess without much to go on!)

 

[Erik van Straten]

Does the rangefinder spot fade or does it move away out of the frame?

It could be that the prism is loose.

When there is something wrong with the rangefinder of an M Leica, above all with an M3, you'll need a professional repairman to fix it - if fixing is possible.


Erik.

 

[xayraa33]

Hello to everyone. I use to read the forum from time to time but i think i've nevera postes here before.

I would like to ask you about a issue i'm having and can't find any info on the net.

First, a little of history. I'm an analog shooter, and about 3 years ago i bought a Leica M3 (DS first versión, 1955) that i've been using since then with excellent resulta with a Summitar 50 f2 (ltm, adapted), a Summarit 50 1.5 (M mount), an Elmar 90 f4 collapsable (m mount) and a Culminar 85 f2.8 (ltm, adapted). All ok. Yep, it's a cheap package bit i like the carácter of that old glass

Note that these ltm lenses works as fine in a Leica IiIf I also own.

Well, the issue i'm having os with a ltm Summaron 35 3.5. as an ltm lens, It has no googles for the M3 viewfinder, but that's not the issue. When i use this lens on the M3, the ramgefinder is lost at close focus distances, somewhere between 2m and 1,5m. The rangefinder patch just disappears from the viewfinder. The same lens focusses OK on the IIIf, and even on the M3 at far distance (~2m to Infinity).

So o would like to ask if It"s "normal" and a googled 35 os mandatory (not just advisable) for my camera, ir if could ve some type of issue with the adapters. I use type 1 adapters (compatible with Infinity lock lenses), and have tried with a 50/75, 28/90 and 35/135 from 2 or 3 brands.

Ant idea of what's happening?

Thanks in advance

With no film in the M3 and baseplate off and back door open and in good light.. place the shutter dial on B and hold the shutter open (use a lockable cable release if you got one) and check to see if the RF cam is not hitting anything.. in the camera or on the lens cam or the cam is not riding the lens cam at the close focus distances that you mentioned.

 

[Hogarth Ferguson]

Probably completely stupid but I'm gonna say it anyway: you're not covering the RF patch window with your hand when you focus that closely, are you?

 

[guty86]

Thanks for your ideas!

The patch fases out quickly when the críticas focusing distance os reached, It does NOT move away.

Of course the RF Windows are free, no fingers in front of them.

I'm goong yo my work right now, when at home i"ll check the cam movement. Maybe Ia hitting the adapter o dime other part, but the adapters and the camera are the same which work well with other ltm lenses (allí of them with 1m minimum focus distance, so no a .7m that could be getting out of the range of the cam).


Now you say biogon, 2 years ago i bought a Jupiter 12
ltm (35mm pre-war biogon copy) and has a very similar (probably the same) issue with the same camera (and same adapters). At that time i though It could be a problem with the lens (soviet crappy QC, ir diferentes flange distance of the soviet ltm copies).

On the evening i'm checking the cam mechanism and i"lo tell you.

And sorry if Tere os some bizarre Word, i'm weitong from a spanish phone and from a bus un movement

 

[guty86]

Well, checked the camera "from inside" and got some info. First of allí, i had a mistake explaining the issue: the RF spot does not fade nor dissapear: It gets "stuck" and doesn't move until the lens focusses back to ~2m

nos, the result of my exam: when focusing "far" all seems to be ok with the cam. But when focusing closer, the cam touches the adapter, so It does not move furtheralgthout the lens has a long way to reach the Minimum focus distance. Of course if the cam does not move, the RF patch doesn't move either.

In other lenses the cam doesn't reach the adapter.

So, with the root of the problema aimed, the question os ¿Which adapter do i need? The types pf adapters I know are relates with the compatibility with Infinity Focus lock lenses (type 1), compatible with digital coding (type 2) as compatible with both (type 3). I saw no mention of a concrete lens/cam focus path. The only thing could be related seems to be the framing lines, but again i Saw the same issue with the 28/90, 50/75 and 35/135.

Things are getting brighter, but still no idea of how to solve that.

CharlesDAMorgan, Which adapter brand do you use for that 35"s?

Thanks again guys.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Intriguing - I've just moved Guty86 but will have a hunt for my adapter box, I think it was a genuine Leica one, but will get back to you if and when I find it.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Found it - I have nothing to test it with now, but it worked with no issue on my Summaron M3 f3.5 combination when I had it. (on cameras with 35mm framelines this will bring them up as well as the 135s)

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Found my LTM 35mm Elmar and 50mm Summitar and both work with the adapter above on both my M3 and my M4 without any issue with the rangefinder patch at any focussing distance.

Hope that helps!

 

[guty86]

Thanks Charles for tour time and tour help. In a few days i'll check with a friend's M3 and his adapter.


I'm quite sure that the problem is on my adapters, Which are chinese. No great quality as i see now, but easy to find and functional with other lenses.

Nos is time to think about buying a new adaptor (leica one are hard to find) or go for an M Summaron (ir some other M lens).

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Good luck - my Voigtlander adapter for the 28-90 is also excellent.

You may want to post a new thread asking for good adapter maker recommendations to aid finding one. All the cheap ones I've bought have been disastrously bad.

I have a goggled Summaron, it's a beautiful lens but sadly, like far too much nowadays quite expensive. It also adds a decent amount of weight to the camera.

 

[Huss]

You may want to post a new thread asking for good adapter maker recommendations to aid finding one. All the cheap ones I've bought have been disastrously bad.

I've used all types, including genuine Leica and Voigtlander and I've found FotodioxPro ones to work just as well for a fraction of the cost.

So while I still have those fancy ones, if I need one I just buy Fotodiox. If anything is amiss, I'd just exchange it but I've actually had more problems with Leica adapters not allowing lenses to lock properly etc. depending on what camera body they are used on. Tolerances vary on the cameras themselves as well as the adapters.

 

[guty86]

Solved, thanks for the tips!
I couldn't find any Leitz nor Voigtlander adapter with support for Infinity lock, so tried a Metabones that was at sale price on Amazon and It works!

For my eye they are the same, but of course they hace some difference. Maybe .5mm ir even thinner than the others (fotodiox and gobe).

My fotodiox and gobe adapters works just fine with the 50 and 85 lenses, but not with the 35mm Summaron seem to have a little longer focus Paty (althought the min Focus distance is 1m).

Not sure if the issue with gobe and fotodiox is just QC with mines or if all the units are affected. Maybe they didn't thought about an early Summaron when designing the adapter. Who knows. Anyway, the metabones works right for my M3DS and muy Summaron.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Great result - glad you sorted it !