Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
I'm really getting to the point where I want to print on my own. I know of the perfect area for this...it would even be wet.
There is an 8'x8' area in the laundry room in this house that would be perfect for a darkroom setup. It has counters, a sink, storage cupboards, and would be very easy to seal off light tight with a blackout curtain. The main problem I'd have would be convincing everyone to let me use the space that doesn't really understand this hobby of mine.
I'll have $400 coming from taxes (which we all know) and I'm really pondering having *this* be what I spend it on. It would be so much easier for me if I had an actual darkroom. Using the space I have in mindhas two problems, though, I think.
The sink is actually where some water drains to...probably from the air conditioning. I couldn't block that. I was actually thinking of just using standing tubs of water or getting myself some tanks to set on the actual counters to fill trays with. The local store sells nice 2.5 reusable water dispensers for around $8...may be something to look into.
The other thing is more important: The ceiling in the part of the basement I'm thinking of setting up in hasn't been finished. I don't know where I'd hang the blackout curtain. Then again, this could be a good thing...I could hang it from the wood beams and it could be easier to make it light tight...not sure. The best solution would be a black covering that I could cover the entire space with...but I don't see that happening.
Also, ventilation. Not much there. I'd probably have to work for a little while and then let the place air out. Using an odorless stop/fix may help with this, though, and that's something that I've been looking into.
The ideal thing would be something that I could take down when I'm finished. The entire area would be about 8'x5' finished if I just used the one counter without the sink or 8'x8' if I used both counters.
Does anyone have any advice? Anything would be appreciated.
There is an 8'x8' area in the laundry room in this house that would be perfect for a darkroom setup. It has counters, a sink, storage cupboards, and would be very easy to seal off light tight with a blackout curtain. The main problem I'd have would be convincing everyone to let me use the space that doesn't really understand this hobby of mine.
I'll have $400 coming from taxes (which we all know) and I'm really pondering having *this* be what I spend it on. It would be so much easier for me if I had an actual darkroom. Using the space I have in mindhas two problems, though, I think.
The sink is actually where some water drains to...probably from the air conditioning. I couldn't block that. I was actually thinking of just using standing tubs of water or getting myself some tanks to set on the actual counters to fill trays with. The local store sells nice 2.5 reusable water dispensers for around $8...may be something to look into.
The other thing is more important: The ceiling in the part of the basement I'm thinking of setting up in hasn't been finished. I don't know where I'd hang the blackout curtain. Then again, this could be a good thing...I could hang it from the wood beams and it could be easier to make it light tight...not sure. The best solution would be a black covering that I could cover the entire space with...but I don't see that happening.
Also, ventilation. Not much there. I'd probably have to work for a little while and then let the place air out. Using an odorless stop/fix may help with this, though, and that's something that I've been looking into.
The ideal thing would be something that I could take down when I'm finished. The entire area would be about 8'x5' finished if I just used the one counter without the sink or 8'x8' if I used both counters.
Does anyone have any advice? Anything would be appreciated.
X
xcapekey
Guest
8x8 is a mansion compared to my darkroom 
i have a 6x4 bath and can pull 16x20 prints no prob
in tems of conserving space...I'd look into getting a vertical shelving unit and stacking trays vertically instead of horizontally...that will save a ton of room...i got mine from an ikea (you should check staples or other office supply stores for real bare bones metal shelves)...i can put either 2 11x14 or 1 16x20 tray per shelf...bottom shelf is for my chemistry...
i don't have a curtain, i use dark black opaque plastic with clips on either end...i've drilled in some screws and just clip the ends to the screws....plastic is a lot lighter than cloth and can be folded into a smaller volume...
might also want to think of running a line of twine across the room and get some clothespins to hang your prints/negs with...
as for ventilation, you do need some....hopefully there's a window or something in the room? you can buy a light tight fan made for darkrooms from freestylephoto that doesn't cost too much...
odorless fix/stop will help stop the smell, but you may still get dizzy from the vapors...
hope this helps...
i have a 6x4 bath and can pull 16x20 prints no prob in tems of conserving space...I'd look into getting a vertical shelving unit and stacking trays vertically instead of horizontally...that will save a ton of room...i got mine from an ikea (you should check staples or other office supply stores for real bare bones metal shelves)...i can put either 2 11x14 or 1 16x20 tray per shelf...bottom shelf is for my chemistry...
i don't have a curtain, i use dark black opaque plastic with clips on either end...i've drilled in some screws and just clip the ends to the screws....plastic is a lot lighter than cloth and can be folded into a smaller volume...
might also want to think of running a line of twine across the room and get some clothespins to hang your prints/negs with...
as for ventilation, you do need some....hopefully there's a window or something in the room? you can buy a light tight fan made for darkrooms from freestylephoto that doesn't cost too much...
odorless fix/stop will help stop the smell, but you may still get dizzy from the vapors...
hope this helps...
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
I think I can go with a horizontal tray placement...I won't be doing anything larger than 11x14 and I really don't see myself printing larger than 8x10 as a start. The counter is about 6' long. Should hold four trays. The other counter is about 3.5-4' long...that could easily hold the enlarger.
I don't think that space is going to end up the problem...it's going to be more about ventilation and lightproofing the area. There are *no* windows in the area I'll be using so that helps a bit, but not with ventilation. I'll probably have to pick up some sort of a device for that.
I don't think that space is going to end up the problem...it's going to be more about ventilation and lightproofing the area. There are *no* windows in the area I'll be using so that helps a bit, but not with ventilation. I'll probably have to pick up some sort of a device for that.
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Okay, update.
I've pretty much decided that this can't be a permanent darkroom. So here's what I've come up with. Tell me if it's completely nuts.
I'm going to make an 8'x8' (roughly) tent-like thing. Two walls from the room are going to be used and the other two will be made with blackout cloth. In addition to this, I will also make a 'ceiling' using blackout cloth that will be attached to the two walls. The two walls of blackout cloth will be adhered to the two walls that I'm actually using from the room with some kind of double-sided adhesive...something that won't harm the paint. I'm actually wondering if I could posslbly create a zippered thing that would go all the way down to the floor that could be attached, light tight, to the wall to make for ultimate tear-down-ability. I'm thinking of using pipe to make the actual frame. Should work well enough.
It's kind of hard to explainn what I'm thinking. Maybe once I figure it out completely I can explain better.
I've pretty much decided that this can't be a permanent darkroom. So here's what I've come up with. Tell me if it's completely nuts.
I'm going to make an 8'x8' (roughly) tent-like thing. Two walls from the room are going to be used and the other two will be made with blackout cloth. In addition to this, I will also make a 'ceiling' using blackout cloth that will be attached to the two walls. The two walls of blackout cloth will be adhered to the two walls that I'm actually using from the room with some kind of double-sided adhesive...something that won't harm the paint. I'm actually wondering if I could posslbly create a zippered thing that would go all the way down to the floor that could be attached, light tight, to the wall to make for ultimate tear-down-ability. I'm thinking of using pipe to make the actual frame. Should work well enough.
It's kind of hard to explainn what I'm thinking. Maybe once I figure it out completely I can explain better.
sf
Veteran
Using pipe is a good idea. . . just be careful about thread directions. Gets to be a pain in the ***. And threads getting jammed. Also a pain.
I have been working in a small bathroom where i have to work AROUND the sink, and set everything in a terribly dense pile on a counter. Three trays, the enlarger, the light table. All on a short bathroom counter.
DO it, though. It is worth it. I wish i could have a permanent place to print. I went to digital workflow (scanning negs and printing on a nice printer) to get around the trouble of setting up the DR in a communal bathroom every week or so.
I have been working in a small bathroom where i have to work AROUND the sink, and set everything in a terribly dense pile on a counter. Three trays, the enlarger, the light table. All on a short bathroom counter.
DO it, though. It is worth it. I wish i could have a permanent place to print. I went to digital workflow (scanning negs and printing on a nice printer) to get around the trouble of setting up the DR in a communal bathroom every week or so.
Fred
Feline Great
Steph,
To save more space and have better chemistry life, see if you can get hold of a used slot processor like something from Nova Darkroom. Sometimes you see these on the bay.
The foot print of a 10 x 8 3 slot unit is only about 10 x 6. They are not cheap but definitely worth it in both space and chemistry life.
To save more space and have better chemistry life, see if you can get hold of a used slot processor like something from Nova Darkroom. Sometimes you see these on the bay.
The foot print of a 10 x 8 3 slot unit is only about 10 x 6. They are not cheap but definitely worth it in both space and chemistry life.
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Blackout-lining...ryZ28160QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Wonder if this would work?
And I don't have to worry about chemistry life so much...I plan to do most of the printing I want to do at once and then not do any for a while. I'll most likely mix things up for one-shot use anyway. I don't see myself printing more than once a week.
Wonder if this would work?
And I don't have to worry about chemistry life so much...I plan to do most of the printing I want to do at once and then not do any for a while. I'll most likely mix things up for one-shot use anyway. I don't see myself printing more than once a week.
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
And one more thing: I don't plan on getting new equipment. However, these do pop up on Ebay occasionally and I was wondering how good they are in terms of a first enlarger?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...140&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...140&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
They are very good enlargers.
I suspect you can find some decent ones quite cheap. Sounds harsh, but a lot show up in thrift stores, antique stores, camera shows for fairly cheap. A lot of people getting out of "real Darkroom" work.
Do not spend too much on it. Post a want-to-buy. A good B&W enlarger bought used should be fairly cheap.
I suspect you can find some decent ones quite cheap. Sounds harsh, but a lot show up in thrift stores, antique stores, camera shows for fairly cheap. A lot of people getting out of "real Darkroom" work.
Do not spend too much on it. Post a want-to-buy. A good B&W enlarger bought used should be fairly cheap.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I agree with Brian. Get a good enlarger as cheaply as you can, but don't skimp on the lens. I went with Fujinon lenses and was very happy, but Rodenstock, Schneider, etc., at a good price would be good too.
FrankS
Registered User
If you are patient, you can find darkroom stuff being almost given away.
Good luck with this project Stephanie! Darkroom work can be a very rewarding experience and perfectly completes the photographic experience from beginning to end.
Good luck with this project Stephanie! Darkroom work can be a very rewarding experience and perfectly completes the photographic experience from beginning to end.
tetrisattack
Maximum Creativity!
I used to work in a tiny windowless bathroom, taking breaks every hour or so, so that the chemistry didn't kill me. Then I moved to a new apartment, and I was seriously bummed that the bathroom was no longer conducive to darkroom work.
But what I didn't realize is this: when the sun goes down, if I draw the shades, the kitchen and entire living room become dark enough to handle paper without fogging. Now that I've had that epiphany, I stay up late and print the winter nights away with plenty of wide-open space to work. Another important realization is this: you don't need running water where your trays are. You can work it through the trays and put it into a water bath, meaning you don't even need a sink handy.
So, are you sure you have to put your temporary darkroom in some dark hole? Is it possible to just wait for everybody else to go to sleep, then convert a regular room into a lab? Maybe if you have a garage, back somebody's car out of it when you want to print?
Oh, and also, I've found that the people with whom I live are far more receptive to having all my darkroom junk filling up closet space once I start hanging my prints on the walls.
But what I didn't realize is this: when the sun goes down, if I draw the shades, the kitchen and entire living room become dark enough to handle paper without fogging. Now that I've had that epiphany, I stay up late and print the winter nights away with plenty of wide-open space to work. Another important realization is this: you don't need running water where your trays are. You can work it through the trays and put it into a water bath, meaning you don't even need a sink handy.
So, are you sure you have to put your temporary darkroom in some dark hole? Is it possible to just wait for everybody else to go to sleep, then convert a regular room into a lab? Maybe if you have a garage, back somebody's car out of it when you want to print?
Oh, and also, I've found that the people with whom I live are far more receptive to having all my darkroom junk filling up closet space once I start hanging my prints on the walls.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Stephanie, a couple of thoughts:
-- If you use a vertical "slot" processor, this helps with the ventilation issue because there's less room for the chemicals to evaporate and it's easy to keep the slots covered between prints.
-- A good way to save space is to separate your processing and washing operations. I expose and process prints in a slot processor in my tiny (6x5-foot) darkroom, then rinse them and carry them out to the kitchen, where the print washer sits on the counter.
-- Remember that a darkroom only has to be dark between the time you open the paper box and the time the print is fixed. During the rest of the time, it can be open to the air. That's how I deal with ventilation in my tiny darkroom: I leave the door open, with a fan blowing in, most of the time (the light is dim enough that I can still focus the enlarger and so on.) When I'm ready to expose a print, I close the door and proceed. As soon as the print's been in the fixer for a minute or so, I open the door again. I'm never "shut up in the dark" for more than about 5 minutes, so ventilation isn't much of a problem.
PS -- I sent you a PM with some more ideas.
-- If you use a vertical "slot" processor, this helps with the ventilation issue because there's less room for the chemicals to evaporate and it's easy to keep the slots covered between prints.
-- A good way to save space is to separate your processing and washing operations. I expose and process prints in a slot processor in my tiny (6x5-foot) darkroom, then rinse them and carry them out to the kitchen, where the print washer sits on the counter.
-- Remember that a darkroom only has to be dark between the time you open the paper box and the time the print is fixed. During the rest of the time, it can be open to the air. That's how I deal with ventilation in my tiny darkroom: I leave the door open, with a fan blowing in, most of the time (the light is dim enough that I can still focus the enlarger and so on.) When I'm ready to expose a print, I close the door and proceed. As soon as the print's been in the fixer for a minute or so, I open the door again. I'm never "shut up in the dark" for more than about 5 minutes, so ventilation isn't much of a problem.
PS -- I sent you a PM with some more ideas.
P
pshinkaw
Guest
I skimped on lenses for many years (Voss, Prinz and Vivitar). When I first used an El Nikkor, I was very sorry that I had not done it sooner.
The shipping charges on e-Bay enlargers will eat up any savings you find on a "good deal" The bases are heavy and they tend to be bulky, even when they have been dismantled. On the other hand, a light weight enlarger could more easily have problems with alignment that will haunt you for awhile too.
-Paul
The shipping charges on e-Bay enlargers will eat up any savings you find on a "good deal" The bases are heavy and they tend to be bulky, even when they have been dismantled. On the other hand, a light weight enlarger could more easily have problems with alignment that will haunt you for awhile too.
-Paul
sherm
Well-known
Stephanie:
One thing that I noticed that hasn't really been touched on is VENTILATION. You mention that the ceiling isn't finished.... please make sure that all surfaces are as non-porous as possible. The smell gets everywhere, especially the fixer. As long as the area that you plan to use won't be needed for anyhting else in the near future then go for it. But please in my humble opinion get a fan or two so you don't forever contaminate that area. You'll have to repaint, re-drywall and in my case replace some carpet if you don't.
Scott
One thing that I noticed that hasn't really been touched on is VENTILATION. You mention that the ceiling isn't finished.... please make sure that all surfaces are as non-porous as possible. The smell gets everywhere, especially the fixer. As long as the area that you plan to use won't be needed for anyhting else in the near future then go for it. But please in my humble opinion get a fan or two so you don't forever contaminate that area. You'll have to repaint, re-drywall and in my case replace some carpet if you don't.
Scott
S
Sean Reid
Guest
Stephanie,
I would really encourage you to give serious thought to ventilation. I worked in darkrooms heavily for over 20 years (some of it as a professional exhibition printer) and I couldn't have done it w/o proper ventilation. Even if you're only printing for a short time, etc., it's important to get fresh air in and stale air out. I'll point you to references if you'd like but the chemistry in traditional printing is serious stuff and not something one wants to be breathing in. I'd either find a way or look at alternate spaces.
Cheers,
Sean
I would really encourage you to give serious thought to ventilation. I worked in darkrooms heavily for over 20 years (some of it as a professional exhibition printer) and I couldn't have done it w/o proper ventilation. Even if you're only printing for a short time, etc., it's important to get fresh air in and stale air out. I'll point you to references if you'd like but the chemistry in traditional printing is serious stuff and not something one wants to be breathing in. I'd either find a way or look at alternate spaces.
Cheers,
Sean
zburch
Member
Stephanie,
Congratulations on your decision. If you enjoy the printing process nothing beats having access to a darkroom whenever you want. I have mine in a tiny bathroom. For ventilation I use the Calumet air purifier and a fan. I am not sure how well it works, but I can tell you the smell has not permeated anything in my small apartment. I also assume that I get a fair amount of ventilation just from going in and out of the darkroom to check my prints in decent light.
For my curtain, I use a large piece of Duvateen that I hang from a curtain rod that is over the door.
I just picked up a used 100 mmSchneider lens that was in great condition at B&H. But I would suggest that before you buy a used lens, you inspect it. Many that I looked at had cleaning scratches...
Good luck!
Amy.
www.amybphoto.com
Congratulations on your decision. If you enjoy the printing process nothing beats having access to a darkroom whenever you want. I have mine in a tiny bathroom. For ventilation I use the Calumet air purifier and a fan. I am not sure how well it works, but I can tell you the smell has not permeated anything in my small apartment. I also assume that I get a fair amount of ventilation just from going in and out of the darkroom to check my prints in decent light.
For my curtain, I use a large piece of Duvateen that I hang from a curtain rod that is over the door.
I just picked up a used 100 mmSchneider lens that was in great condition at B&H. But I would suggest that before you buy a used lens, you inspect it. Many that I looked at had cleaning scratches...
Good luck!
Amy.
www.amybphoto.com
I learned the importance of good ventilation long ago at age 16. I had a darkroom setup in my bedroom, no ventilation. I swear I saw the Safelight walk across the room after printing into 3am.
peterc
Heretic
I may be able to help you with equipment.Stephanie Brim said:
A co-worker asked me last night if i'd help him sell off his late father's darkroom equipment. I don't know exactly what he has, but his father did colour and black and white printing and apparently was always upgrading to the latest and greatest equipment.
He says he'll try to get me a list sometime next week.
Peter
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Because supplies are going to come cheap (most likely, anyway) I'm probably going to spend the bulk of my money on my blackout fabric for the tent and also a ventilation fan. Does anyone know where I can get a decent yet cheap fan that would both suck the bad air out and bring clean air in?