Steevo
Established
Dear RFF Community: My wife and I will be traveling to Italy in a few weeks for 14 days. We will be traveling to Milan, Venice, Tuscany, then to the Cinque Terre and back up to Milan.
I would like to get the community's opinions on two issues:
A. What to shoot with....here is what I am planning:
Film - Leica M2, 35mm f2.8 / 50mm f2 / 90mm f4 / Sekonic Micro Meter
Digital - Lumix GH1 / 14-140mm video lens / 20mm f1.7 lens
Adapter to put Leica lenses on the Lumix.
This kit a lot for traveling light, but I can't think about going to Italy and not shooting with film and digital. I could swap out the Lumix for a Nikon D90 and 18-135 lens.
Any advice? Am I missing something obvious?? Like most of us here, I have a lot of gear from which to choose.
B. Locations? Restaurants?? For those of you more familiar with Italy than myself, are there any out of the way places you recommend to see, or eat, or visit that are off the beaten path??
Recommendations welcome. Thanks.
SW
I would like to get the community's opinions on two issues:
A. What to shoot with....here is what I am planning:
Film - Leica M2, 35mm f2.8 / 50mm f2 / 90mm f4 / Sekonic Micro Meter
Digital - Lumix GH1 / 14-140mm video lens / 20mm f1.7 lens
Adapter to put Leica lenses on the Lumix.
This kit a lot for traveling light, but I can't think about going to Italy and not shooting with film and digital. I could swap out the Lumix for a Nikon D90 and 18-135 lens.
Any advice? Am I missing something obvious?? Like most of us here, I have a lot of gear from which to choose.
B. Locations? Restaurants?? For those of you more familiar with Italy than myself, are there any out of the way places you recommend to see, or eat, or visit that are off the beaten path??
Recommendations welcome. Thanks.
SW
raid
Dad Photographer
The chosen trip route is wonderful.
I would travel as light as possible, while having with you the equipment that you really want to use. I would insure the expensive cameras/lenses through your homeowner insurance.
You should NEVER leave behind at the hotel or car any camera equipment, so travel lighter, if you can.
While in Tuscany, I recommend making Siena your base. The surrounding villages are very beautiful.
Have a good trip.
I would travel as light as possible, while having with you the equipment that you really want to use. I would insure the expensive cameras/lenses through your homeowner insurance.
You should NEVER leave behind at the hotel or car any camera equipment, so travel lighter, if you can.
While in Tuscany, I recommend making Siena your base. The surrounding villages are very beautiful.
Have a good trip.
gbealnz
Well-known
I'll second the Sienna recommendation, we were based in Florence, but traveled to Sienna, a wonderful area to visit.
In my case (this was 12 months ago), I left home with an M6, plus 35 and 50 Summicron, and a heap of film. My wife took what I figured was the "family snaps" camera, a Fuji X-10.
As we passed through Singapore I purchased a Leica X1 (used), which I had been looking at via the internet.
The trip was about 7 weeks, and took in Paris, Faro (Portugal), Ax-en-Provence, Milan, Florence, a 12 night Med cruise, Rome, and home via Hong Kong.
The M6 saw through to about Florence, with slightly less than 2 rolls of B&W exposed.
The X1 on the other hand, well, it never stopped being used, every day, and night.
The fear of having one fixed lens was grossly unfounded, in fact it was a revelation. We are currently planning another trip for 11 months time, similar areas, and another cruise. The X1 will be going again, no doubt. The Fujis will remain at home, as will the film, perhaps.
OK, I might take the old Barnack. Might. From this experience, less is definitely more.
Gary
In my case (this was 12 months ago), I left home with an M6, plus 35 and 50 Summicron, and a heap of film. My wife took what I figured was the "family snaps" camera, a Fuji X-10.
As we passed through Singapore I purchased a Leica X1 (used), which I had been looking at via the internet.
The trip was about 7 weeks, and took in Paris, Faro (Portugal), Ax-en-Provence, Milan, Florence, a 12 night Med cruise, Rome, and home via Hong Kong.
The M6 saw through to about Florence, with slightly less than 2 rolls of B&W exposed.
The X1 on the other hand, well, it never stopped being used, every day, and night.
The fear of having one fixed lens was grossly unfounded, in fact it was a revelation. We are currently planning another trip for 11 months time, similar areas, and another cruise. The X1 will be going again, no doubt. The Fujis will remain at home, as will the film, perhaps.
OK, I might take the old Barnack. Might. From this experience, less is definitely more.
Gary
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Don't drive. Far too many Italians can't, and will endanger you with their incompetence, so stick with public transport, preferably on rails. Yes, it's true that the majority of Italians can drive perfectly well. The remainder, however, are among the worst drivers in the world: not just incompetent (there's plenty of that in most countries) but aggressively and flamboyantly incompetent. It takes only one to kill you or seriously injure you -- and it can be quite hard not to kill or injure them, unless you assume that they're aggressively and flamboyantly incompetent.
This is not based on just one unlucky visit. I'll go there now only in a Series Land Rover with rock sliders, and then, only on the shortest possible route to the next country. And I drive VERY defensively.
Cheers,
R.
This is not based on just one unlucky visit. I'll go there now only in a Series Land Rover with rock sliders, and then, only on the shortest possible route to the next country. And I drive VERY defensively.
Cheers,
R.
kxl
Social Documentary
I was in Italy in November of last year with a similar itinerary, although I skipped Milan and instead went to Rome (to visit friends) as well as Naples, Sorrento and the Amalfi Coast. You can see some of the photos on my website. Siena would be a good base, although we used Florence as our base.
My photographic tastes and style may be very different from yours, so the usual caveats apply. IMO, a glaring omission from your gear is a lens with an FOV equivalent to a 24mm/25mm or even a wider 21mm. Also, unless you typically shoot with a 90mm, leave it at home. IMHO, Italy is for shooting wide. I had a 24mm (60%), a 35mm (35%) and 75mm (5%)
One other thing, I hardly shot any film when I was there; again, a caveat -- I only shoot B&W film. When I want color, I use a digital camera. The destinations on my itinerary were just asking for color images, and I figured that if I wanted them in B&W, I would just convert them in Silver EFEX.
Have fun!!!
My photographic tastes and style may be very different from yours, so the usual caveats apply. IMO, a glaring omission from your gear is a lens with an FOV equivalent to a 24mm/25mm or even a wider 21mm. Also, unless you typically shoot with a 90mm, leave it at home. IMHO, Italy is for shooting wide. I had a 24mm (60%), a 35mm (35%) and 75mm (5%)
One other thing, I hardly shot any film when I was there; again, a caveat -- I only shoot B&W film. When I want color, I use a digital camera. The destinations on my itinerary were just asking for color images, and I figured that if I wanted them in B&W, I would just convert them in Silver EFEX.
Have fun!!!
jpa66
Jan as in "Jan and Dean"
Well, I'll be a contrarian and recommend Lucca as a homebase instead of Sienna. I enjoyed it much more than Sienna, although it might not be near enough to the places that you want to go.
Florence is a wonderful place where you could spend days just there. In my opinion, it's best to stay in Venice when visiting. That way you get to see all the beauty of the city at night, when all of the day-trippers are gone. If you are staying in an apartment, you have to go to the market and get fish - some of the best, freshest fish that I ever had.
The Cinque Terre is great, but not so good if it's raining (ask me how I know this...). My wife and I were just there in May, and have been there a couple of times before. We always prefer to stay in Corniglia, as it offers incredible views and is not overrun by tourists. Please check the CT website to see if all of the trails are open. When I was there in May, only two trails between the towns were open (the most travelled ones) but nearly all of the higher trails were open (more challenging, but much better views/way less people). You are going at a pretty good time, though.
And regarding driving, I concur with Roger that Italians can drive quite incompetently, but my wife and I did rent a car for a week while there, and had no problems. But this was in Le Marche, and there is much less traffic there than where you're going. I doubt that I'd want to drive in/around Florence or Venice, but the other areas, I'd think would be fine if you're cautious (mostly of other drivers).
As far as photography goes, I'd definitely bring a wide, but if you plan on hiking around the Cinque Terre, you'd probably want a longer lense, too. I always bring my Rolleiflex and a 35mm camera (last time it was a Nikon FM3a, previously a Bessa R4) with a wide, a fast 50 for low light, and (around) a 90). I don't shoot digital - the wife has a compact one and uses it. I shoot both color and B&W - the places you are going are equally appropriate for both types (but you HAVE to shoot at least color in the Cinque Terre)
Have a great time! I love Italy.
Florence is a wonderful place where you could spend days just there. In my opinion, it's best to stay in Venice when visiting. That way you get to see all the beauty of the city at night, when all of the day-trippers are gone. If you are staying in an apartment, you have to go to the market and get fish - some of the best, freshest fish that I ever had.
The Cinque Terre is great, but not so good if it's raining (ask me how I know this...). My wife and I were just there in May, and have been there a couple of times before. We always prefer to stay in Corniglia, as it offers incredible views and is not overrun by tourists. Please check the CT website to see if all of the trails are open. When I was there in May, only two trails between the towns were open (the most travelled ones) but nearly all of the higher trails were open (more challenging, but much better views/way less people). You are going at a pretty good time, though.
And regarding driving, I concur with Roger that Italians can drive quite incompetently, but my wife and I did rent a car for a week while there, and had no problems. But this was in Le Marche, and there is much less traffic there than where you're going. I doubt that I'd want to drive in/around Florence or Venice, but the other areas, I'd think would be fine if you're cautious (mostly of other drivers).
As far as photography goes, I'd definitely bring a wide, but if you plan on hiking around the Cinque Terre, you'd probably want a longer lense, too. I always bring my Rolleiflex and a 35mm camera (last time it was a Nikon FM3a, previously a Bessa R4) with a wide, a fast 50 for low light, and (around) a 90). I don't shoot digital - the wife has a compact one and uses it. I shoot both color and B&W - the places you are going are equally appropriate for both types (but you HAVE to shoot at least color in the Cinque Terre)
Have a great time! I love Italy.
mfogiel
Veteran
The point is: are you a photographer or a tourist?
If you are a photographer, then it does not matter if you are in your bedroom or in the Louvre museum, you will know what equipment you need. If you are a tourist, buy postcards and enjoy every moment through your eyes, instead of wasting time on silly clicks. If you really feel urge of documenting that you have been to Canal Grande, get one of these plastic sticks to hold your Iphone for the selfies.
Italy needs to be seen, smelled, and above all tasted. Always look for restaurants remote from the touristic places, and always order wine, or water at worst, as you will spoil the taste of the dishes with anything else. Drink cappuccino in the morning and black coffee from lunch on. Look for beauty.
If you are a photographer, then it does not matter if you are in your bedroom or in the Louvre museum, you will know what equipment you need. If you are a tourist, buy postcards and enjoy every moment through your eyes, instead of wasting time on silly clicks. If you really feel urge of documenting that you have been to Canal Grande, get one of these plastic sticks to hold your Iphone for the selfies.
Italy needs to be seen, smelled, and above all tasted. Always look for restaurants remote from the touristic places, and always order wine, or water at worst, as you will spoil the taste of the dishes with anything else. Drink cappuccino in the morning and black coffee from lunch on. Look for beauty.
mretina
Well-known
Hello from Italy.
Good Itinerary. you do not need much time in Milan. also considering that it will be where you fly in and out so you will have half days to spend. You should do Verona if you have time on the way to Venice. Venice, Florence and the countryside around Siena.
The Cinque Terre region is really beautiful and given the time of the year leading into fall you are probably going to find here the best colours and also still warm on a sunny day. If you are interested there you can also do some hiking. The weather this spring was exceptionally bad and rainy. it seems to have now turned into being much drier. But of course you can never tell.
On the coast, on your way to Cinque Terre, you should consider visiting Genova it has a shipping harbour and one of the largest historical centres in Italy, but much less polished and "postcard-like" as all the other cities you will be visiting (without being dangerous to walk around) which makes for some interesting black and white shooting. You should also go to Portofino a coast village between Genova and Cinque Terre. It is unique. If you pm me with dates and where you are I can recommend a few places to go.
And take the XA with you.
We are not such bad drivers, but you can do everything, more easily, by train. Except, if you would like to tour around Siena, there you would need a car. In Florence, Venice and Cinque Terre you cannot use a car.
Good Itinerary. you do not need much time in Milan. also considering that it will be where you fly in and out so you will have half days to spend. You should do Verona if you have time on the way to Venice. Venice, Florence and the countryside around Siena.
The Cinque Terre region is really beautiful and given the time of the year leading into fall you are probably going to find here the best colours and also still warm on a sunny day. If you are interested there you can also do some hiking. The weather this spring was exceptionally bad and rainy. it seems to have now turned into being much drier. But of course you can never tell.
On the coast, on your way to Cinque Terre, you should consider visiting Genova it has a shipping harbour and one of the largest historical centres in Italy, but much less polished and "postcard-like" as all the other cities you will be visiting (without being dangerous to walk around) which makes for some interesting black and white shooting. You should also go to Portofino a coast village between Genova and Cinque Terre. It is unique. If you pm me with dates and where you are I can recommend a few places to go.
And take the XA with you.
We are not such bad drivers, but you can do everything, more easily, by train. Except, if you would like to tour around Siena, there you would need a car. In Florence, Venice and Cinque Terre you cannot use a car.
daveleo
what?
Film - Leica M2, 35mm f2.8 / 50mm f2 / 90mm f4 / Sekonic Micro Meter
Digital - Lumix GH1 / 14-140mm video lens / 20mm f1.7 lens
Adapter to put Leica lenses on the Lumix.
This kit a lot for traveling light, but I can't think about going to Italy and not shooting with film and digital. I could swap out the Lumix for a Nikon D90 and 18-135 lens.
Any advice? Am I missing something obvious?? Like most of us here, I have a lot of gear from which to choose.
......................................
Leave the 90mm, the light meter, the 14-140 home. Do not bring the big Nikon gear.
Sounds like a lot of territory to cover. Sounds like a sightseeing trip.
Some day go back and chill in one place for a week. It will change your life (it changed mine
)
Oh yes . . . do not expect to drive within a big city. Insane .
Digital - Lumix GH1 / 14-140mm video lens / 20mm f1.7 lens
Adapter to put Leica lenses on the Lumix.
This kit a lot for traveling light, but I can't think about going to Italy and not shooting with film and digital. I could swap out the Lumix for a Nikon D90 and 18-135 lens.
Any advice? Am I missing something obvious?? Like most of us here, I have a lot of gear from which to choose.
......................................
Leave the 90mm, the light meter, the 14-140 home. Do not bring the big Nikon gear.
Sounds like a lot of territory to cover. Sounds like a sightseeing trip.
Some day go back and chill in one place for a week. It will change your life (it changed mine
)Oh yes . . . do not expect to drive within a big city. Insane .
Bingley
Veteran
To lighten up your kit, I'd recommend leaving the 90 at home (unless you regularly use that focal length), and just bring an adapter so that you can put the 50 on your GH1 when you need the extra reach. I've read a LOT of these "what to take on travel" threads over the years, and it's striking how often people say on return that the 90 hardly ever made it out of the bag. Using a GH1 as your second body gives you some flexibility in that regard.
Otherwise, I think your kit sounds fine. I took something similar on a two week trip to Portugal and Spain last year, except that I used my m4/3 body with a Panasonic 14/2.5 lens to cover indoor, night, and other shots where I knew I'd want a 28 effective focal length. YMMV.
Sounds like a great trip, btw, and please post photos when you return!
+1 on mretina's suggestion to take the XA. I usually take one along on vacation travel to Europe, as a small back-up film camera that can be slipped into a pocket and cover a 35 focal length too.
Otherwise, I think your kit sounds fine. I took something similar on a two week trip to Portugal and Spain last year, except that I used my m4/3 body with a Panasonic 14/2.5 lens to cover indoor, night, and other shots where I knew I'd want a 28 effective focal length. YMMV.
Sounds like a great trip, btw, and please post photos when you return!
+1 on mretina's suggestion to take the XA. I usually take one along on vacation travel to Europe, as a small back-up film camera that can be slipped into a pocket and cover a 35 focal length too.
Sparrow
Veteran
... while I don't subscribe to racial stereotypes one is hard pressed to find any undamaged cars in an italian city ... however if you drink 2 or 3 double espressos before getting behind the wheel you'll be fine
raid
Dad Photographer
If you rent a car, make sure to get FULL insurance coverage. I used Hertz 2 years ago in Italy. When we delivered the car back to Milan Airport, the local Hertz official took an additional EURO500 even though I had the basic insurance with Hertz. It took me over six months in phone calls and emails with Hertz until I got a full reimbursement for the extra EURO 500.
Last summer, we got the full insurance. Someone broke into our car overnight, and we needed a replacement car from Hertz. Having full insurance meant no headache. There is no way avoiding someone else causing some damage to your car.
Last summer, we got the full insurance. Someone broke into our car overnight, and we needed a replacement car from Hertz. Having full insurance meant no headache. There is no way avoiding someone else causing some damage to your car.
Lucadomi
Well-known
I never noticed all these crashed cars in Italy. There are just too many cars and aggressive drivers (also in NYC).
Last summer I took with me the Mamiya 6 with one lens and Nikon FE with one lens.
I would consider taking the Rolleiflex.
Last summer I took with me the Mamiya 6 with one lens and Nikon FE with one lens.
I would consider taking the Rolleiflex.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
On one trip alone: held up by 5 fatal or very serious crashes in Italy, plus frightened by a couple of near misses (if Frances had opened the door 5 seconds later in a car park she'd have lost a leg). In the rest of Europe on the same trip: none.
To the OP: Yes, include a serious wide-angle (21mm, 18mm, or even 15mm).
Cheers,
R.
daveleo
what?
I forgot . . . . *car insurance* (as warned above) . . . the deductibles are incredible for rental cars (like $1500US or more) . . . do you insurance homework when renting cars, because in 14 days you are destined to bang into something when in Italy (please, no caustic PM's - I am Italian !!)
(please, no caustic PM's - I am Italian !!)
Lucadomi
Well-known
Well now you make us feel "special", really.
I second the idea of the wide lens. In my case I really enjoyed the 50mm on the Mamiya 6.
raid
Dad Photographer
I forgot . . . . *car insurance* (as warned above) . . . the deductibles are incredible for rental cars (like $1500US or more) . . . do you insurance homework when renting cars, because in 14 days you are destined to bang into something when in Italy
I used pre-paid voucher from Hertz. The extra EURO 500 were for replacing a flat tire and for jump starting the car.
taemo
eat sleep shoot
excellent advice and I agree with Verona.
I'm planning our Italy trip for next year as well and Milan, Verona, Venice, Florence, Cinque Terre are also on our list.
Other cities I'm planning on stopping by are Bologna, Ravenna and Rimini but I guess it will depend on timing as we have only 10-14 days to tour Italy and hence why we skipped South Italy.
any suggestion on what to see in Milan, all I know so far is il duomo and maybe the old castle, will be visiting Motta Visconti since that's where I grew up and might check Lago di Como out.
shortstop
Well-known
May be Italy is the most beautiful country (I'm italian😉); Tuscany is certainly the most beautiful italian region and Siena's land is the most beautiful in Tuscany. These landscapes are what you see in calendars for example. The villages are very nice and artistically important: Bagno Vignoni, Pienza, Montalcino, etc. You can miss Siena, but not these villages and the surrounding land.
Don't carry too stuff. If one only camera, a Rolleiflex with orange/yellow filter and hood (light, easy to use and unforgettable big negatives). If another camera, a Leica with fast 35 and/or 50 for fast outdoors and for interior shots.
You'll walk very much and light cameras are essential.
This is what I use just in Italy when I ride.
Don't carry too stuff. If one only camera, a Rolleiflex with orange/yellow filter and hood (light, easy to use and unforgettable big negatives). If another camera, a Leica with fast 35 and/or 50 for fast outdoors and for interior shots.
You'll walk very much and light cameras are essential.
This is what I use just in Italy when I ride.
pagpow
Well-known
Steevo,
1) I would consider being really draconian in my equipment on this trip. Possibly one camera and one lens for each of you. I used to travel with 3 or 4 cameras and several lenses. Discovered I took more pictures more carefully when I had less equipment.
2) Mode of conveyance depends very much on whether you intend to stay in cities or travel around. In cities, forget a car, but a lot of Italy happens outside city cores, which you can't easily reach w/o a car. This is particularly true of restaurants. Many available in cities, but many more are outside city limits than one expects from a base in, say, the U.S. Don't know your base.
3) Driving. Toll roads or ... I feel much safer on the highway in Italy than I do in the U.S. I find the traffic more disciplined (don't laugh) on Italian highways than US highways. And the danger I've experienced on Italian highways is mostly from long haul trucks and foreign tagged cars. Just saying and I may be an outlier.
4) I have never taken out anything but the mandatory insurance on my car rentals in Italy. My credit card provides insurance. And I have returned cars with damage. I have never been charged extra. Again, possibly I am an outlier.
5) Car rental companies will rent you a car without an international driver's license, but if you get stopped by the police, you run the risk of their wanting to impound your car because they don't know the class of your license. I've been stopped for random checks close to 10 times and it has not been a problem. Once it was.
6) If you do get time in Milan, my favorite seafood restaurant in the world is Al Porto -- incredibly light fritto misto. Used to be hard to get into in the evening without planning ahead, easier at lunch. But my last three trips it has been easier to get into because of the econ downturn.
7) Venice is a bit harder for good restaurants at reasonable prices. My favorite is Al Covo, run by a married couple -- he's from Milan, she's from Lubbock, Texas.
8) Il Gambero Rosso has been a useful guide to eateries. Their one shrimp designation (meaning good food in a more informal setting than a restaurant rated by number of forks) has proven to be a good sign of good eating at good value.
Good luck. Eat well.
Giorgio
1) I would consider being really draconian in my equipment on this trip. Possibly one camera and one lens for each of you. I used to travel with 3 or 4 cameras and several lenses. Discovered I took more pictures more carefully when I had less equipment.
2) Mode of conveyance depends very much on whether you intend to stay in cities or travel around. In cities, forget a car, but a lot of Italy happens outside city cores, which you can't easily reach w/o a car. This is particularly true of restaurants. Many available in cities, but many more are outside city limits than one expects from a base in, say, the U.S. Don't know your base.
3) Driving. Toll roads or ... I feel much safer on the highway in Italy than I do in the U.S. I find the traffic more disciplined (don't laugh) on Italian highways than US highways. And the danger I've experienced on Italian highways is mostly from long haul trucks and foreign tagged cars. Just saying and I may be an outlier.
4) I have never taken out anything but the mandatory insurance on my car rentals in Italy. My credit card provides insurance. And I have returned cars with damage. I have never been charged extra. Again, possibly I am an outlier.
5) Car rental companies will rent you a car without an international driver's license, but if you get stopped by the police, you run the risk of their wanting to impound your car because they don't know the class of your license. I've been stopped for random checks close to 10 times and it has not been a problem. Once it was.
6) If you do get time in Milan, my favorite seafood restaurant in the world is Al Porto -- incredibly light fritto misto. Used to be hard to get into in the evening without planning ahead, easier at lunch. But my last three trips it has been easier to get into because of the econ downturn.
7) Venice is a bit harder for good restaurants at reasonable prices. My favorite is Al Covo, run by a married couple -- he's from Milan, she's from Lubbock, Texas.
8) Il Gambero Rosso has been a useful guide to eateries. Their one shrimp designation (meaning good food in a more informal setting than a restaurant rated by number of forks) has proven to be a good sign of good eating at good value.
Good luck. Eat well.
Giorgio