jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I won't rehash that. Enough damage has been done....
It's not the arrow, it's the indian!
- Thread starter Sailor Ted
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Sailor Ted
Well-known
fgianni said:
So we do agree : )
For me the "subjective" was the user interface between photog and camera and in this criteria the RD-1 wins for me. On getting the M8 I am waiting to see if a hardware problem exists and is contributing to the banding and green blob issue- if so Leica will fix it but I don't want one of those early cameras. In regards to prints I shall wait to see if reports start coming in supporting the premise that this camera gives outstanding results beyond what can be learned from a computer monitor viewing JPG's over the internet.
As it stands now, I am 100% certain the Leica M8 makes better prints then the Epson RD-1 and that a solution involving IR cut filters, a proper C1 profile or a suite of C1 profiles, and a Leica firmware update will solve the IR problem so... no problem. What remains to be seen is whether or not the M8 under the right conditions can deliver extraordinary print performance in the naiborhood of a Hassablad; if so I will probably learn to live with the LCD menu issue- and this is one issue that is not going away any time soon.
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fgianni
Trainee Amateur
JohnL said:
Let's say that some people overreacted to his failure to mention the magenta cast problem in his review, I only hope Sean understands that those people do not represent the majority here at RFF.
willie_901
Veteran
???
???
How could you know this to be a fact?
Have you conducted a poll?
???
fgianni said:
How could you know this to be a fact?
Have you conducted a poll?
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku?
Its interestong that you choose not to buy one right now, I guess reading the different opinions members posted here may have something to do with that.
Another intersting fact is that you seem to be a Leica fan and your thread implies that you got the notion that RFFrs were bashing Leica.
I for one never said anything bad but I respect the opinion of members that paid $5 grand for a camera that has fundemental flaws, at least by todays digital camera standards.
BTW...welcome
Kiu
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I really appreciate Ted's perspective on the interface issues. This is the one thing I've been saying to myself about digital cameras pretty much all along. One of the things that seems different about RF users is that the feel/interface of the camera is very important. I'm actually surprised that the LCD/menu "issue" for the M8 hasn't been more prominent in the discussions.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
NIKON KIU said:
Thanks for the welcome : ) I'm with you on this- if someone paid 5k for an M8 and is not happy with the issues they have every right to be upset, sell their camera for profit on eBay, send it back to Leica, or rant- what ever. My only issue with the rants is the majority seem to be from people who do not own the camera and who continue to harp on what I perceive as non-issues, or who try to rationalize their R-D1 purchase as the camera with "nearly as good as M8 images" and I'm 100% certain this is simply not the case- not even close. I just purchased a new RD-1s but I’m under no delusions that it is the better camera at least where image quality is concerned.
I pretty much summed up my position with my original post on this thread- I like the user interface of the R-D1 better however I'm certain the image quality of the M8 (at least in prints) is far and away beyond most cameras on the market today, perhaps approaching Hassablad quality, and after the dust settles I'm going to get an M8 barring any unforeseen snafus. For me DSLR's are a non option- I just don't enjoy the interface, automation, their ugly looking consumer grade appearance, difficulty zone focusing, or the clumsy bulk. Hey I'm a geek and I love rangefinders- what can I say?
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Sailor Ted
Well-known
Trius,
The interface is what I HATE about most digital cameras as well- image quality comes second to a tool we can use, thankfully both the RD-1 and M8 are fine tools in their own rights 🙂
The interface is what I HATE about most digital cameras as well- image quality comes second to a tool we can use, thankfully both the RD-1 and M8 are fine tools in their own rights 🙂
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
willie_901 said:
Indeed I haven't, I just am under the impression that rudeness is not a feature of the majority of the members.
Maybe I am too naive?
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
Sailor Ted said:
I tend to believe that if you don't print bigger than 10x8 the difference may somehow be marginal, but I guess we will never know until we see a proper comparison done.
From experience the digital workflow and the quality of the printing software seem to have quite a impact on the final result, certainly using Qimage I consistently get better results than printing straight from Photoshop, to the point that often a print from a mediocre quality file in Qimage looks better than a print from a much better quality file straight from Photoshop.
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Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I want an OM-D1 and an Olympus 35SP-D. 😀 The OM-D1 for macro and when an SLR viewfinder is more appropriate/useful, the 35SP-D for when it's RF time. The 35SP-D sensor could have a crop as long as the 42mm effective field of view and f1.7 (or better) is maintained. OK, I could live with 40mm.Sailor Ted said:
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Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Mr. Ted (Sailor Ted), bravo. Let me (nonpatronizingly) welcome you, too. Hear hear!
FrankS
Registered User
Ted, just for interest's sake, could you talk about your sig. line?
Sailor Ted
Well-known
FrankS said:
Sure (now removed for PC sake : )
When I was a young motorcycle racer we were dragging our knees in some LA canyons on the then red hot GSXR 750 (the first one this was the 80's). We felt we were riding at 103% when all of a sudden two guys riding on road / off road BMW's passed us... in the turns with knobby tires no less! Their bikes were zig zaging in a wobbly line no doubt due to the tires and then they were gone. Later that morning we caught up with them at a mountain cafe and I had to know. Their response "it's not the arrow it's the Indian". I took this to mean it's not the motorcycle it's the rider and I've tried to remind myself this ever since as I have a penchant for toys and placing more importance on my gear then I should. I never imagined anyone could take this statement to mean anything else and I am sorry if I have offended anyone or given the wrong impression.
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FrankS
Registered User
Ted, given the thoughtfulness of your posts, I knew there had to be a good story behind it, and that was what I was trying to get out of you. Thanks for the story!
I was not assuming the worst.
(BMW rider 🙂)
I was not assuming the worst.
(BMW rider 🙂)
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Sailor Ted
Well-known
FrankS said:
Thaks Frank
(ex BMW/Ducati 999 rider🙂) "it's not the speed it's the deceleration that kills you"
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raid
Dad Photographer
There are thoughtful postings here. Welcome to RFF, Ted.
I suspect that 2007-2008 will see a digital breakthrough that may [and I say "may"] make film based photography more insecure. I hope trhat the M8 will be well-received by Leica users. It is best for all Leica believers.
Raid
I suspect that 2007-2008 will see a digital breakthrough that may [and I say "may"] make film based photography more insecure. I hope trhat the M8 will be well-received by Leica users. It is best for all Leica believers.
Raid
raid
Dad Photographer
Sailor Ted said:
Ted: Your observation is "the obvious"and "the wise" one. Just today, I posted a response on RFF about Canon , and I suggested [in the heat of comparisons between different lens models] that the photographer is more important here than the type of lens used. Your observation is correct and good for others to live by.
Raid
Rashomon
Member
fgianni said:
A near 5k camera performs on par with a camera that's half its price and you call that "quite an achievement". Yes, it is quite an achievement. ROFL
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Rashomon: Your point about price is understood but read all of Ian's statement: "still quite an achievement considering the lower pixel count and the smaller sensor"
It's sorta like a Trip 35 producing great 16x20 prints. Damned 4-element lens "can't" do that.
The whole purpose of the M8 (as much as I think Leica blew it on handling the well-known faults) is to get the most of Leica RF glass in a digital capture machine. Without having seen prints from good exposures, I sense it's quite good at that. What are your impressions from viewing M8 prints vs. 5D prints at display/exhibition sizes?
It's sorta like a Trip 35 producing great 16x20 prints. Damned 4-element lens "can't" do that.
The whole purpose of the M8 (as much as I think Leica blew it on handling the well-known faults) is to get the most of Leica RF glass in a digital capture machine. Without having seen prints from good exposures, I sense it's quite good at that. What are your impressions from viewing M8 prints vs. 5D prints at display/exhibition sizes?
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