xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Heck, I am still waiting for the digital full frame Nikon SP 
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
+1
I agree that olympus should simply produce the camera and stop playing with our minds.
The negativity towards oly's m43 is not strange in any way -it is simply based on the poor DR and focusing of previous oly cameras and the horrid barrel distortion of their first pancake lens.
I am waiting for Samsung's offering to come later this year. It will have a much larger sensor.
It's funny how when the Panasonic was released, many people said "Ditch the hump! or "It's ugly!" or "Why does it have to look like a baby DSLR!" followed by "I'll wait for the Olympus!"
Now that the Olympus is getting close, it's "Olympus is going out of the camera business!" or "Ditch the teaser marketing campaign!" or "Olympus digitals have always sucked anyway" followed by "I'll wait for the Samsung."
What's going to be said when the Samsung release is imminent? Maybe it will be "Why does it have to look like a baby DSLR?" or "Who would ever buy a camera with Samsung printed on it?" or "Why no articulating LCD?" or "Ditch the hump!"
Now that the Olympus is getting close, it's "Olympus is going out of the camera business!" or "Ditch the teaser marketing campaign!" or "Olympus digitals have always sucked anyway" followed by "I'll wait for the Samsung."
What's going to be said when the Samsung release is imminent? Maybe it will be "Why does it have to look like a baby DSLR?" or "Who would ever buy a camera with Samsung printed on it?" or "Why no articulating LCD?" or "Ditch the hump!"
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My thoughts were regarding not wanting "Samsung" on the camera strictly because of some irrational thought process based on the company not being an 'historical' manufacturer of cameras, kinda like how some people view Panasonic.
If one has a negative experience with a given brand name, that certainly would not be irrational.
If one has a negative experience with a given brand name, that certainly would not be irrational.
calajava@gmail.com
calajava
interested to see Panasonic had been up all the hype with G1 for M4/3 then Olympus take the tide to launch their own. stay tune.
majid
Fazal Majid
I was just reacting to triumphalism, misplaced in my view. I still think this will be a great camera, assuming the rumors are true and this is a pocketable camera with the dimensions of a G10, DP2 or LX3. Sigma was the first, but the body and electronics hobble the otherwise fine Foveon sensor and excellent lens. I just think the Pen43 will eventually be an evolutionary dead-end. Its small sensor ultimately cannot compete with larger sensor cameras (that are not available yet). If they limit it to 6MP, it will work better.
The G1 does poorly at ISO 1600 where all the entry-level APS DSLRs from other manufacturers are perfectly acceptable (let alone a D700 or 5DmkII). The people who seem to think a G1 is competitive with full-frame cameras are simply in denial.
At least Olympus seems to have the right idea - the G1/GH1 is too big to fit in a pocket, and if you are going to keep it in a bag, the size advantage over a Rebel or D5000 is hardly compelling. What we are lacking is high-quality pocketable cameras equivalent to a Contax T3, Nikon 35Ti or Leitz CL. An interchangeable lens means the body can't have a compact retractible design like the T3 or 35Ti, but Olympus is good at miniaturized optics like the 25mm f/2.8. Then again, so is Pentax, aligned with Samsung. With a little luck they will make it a statement camera like the E-1 or OM-4Ti with top-notch build quality and the option of a high-quality fast prime like the Zuiko 50mm f/2.0 Macro or the Zuiko 50mm f/1.2.
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After having owned many APS & full frame cameras as well as the micro 4/3, I disagree. The sensor size does not inhibit the quality in any way. It competes very well with larger sensors.
I haven't seen too many entry level APS sensor DSLRs perform well at 1600. Nor have I seen anyone who thinks a $500 G1 is competitive with a full frame camera. How could it possibly be?
Those are entirely different cameras, two fixed lens and one interchangeable...arguably there are several high-quality digital pocket cams with fixed lenses...
majid
Fazal Majid
A previous poster in this thread:
Granted. I was just emphasizing the outer limits of what I consider pocketable, the G1 or M8 not qualifying.
I purchased a D-Lux 4 and returned it because the results were so underwhelming (e.g. noise so bad at ISO 320 that you could see it even in the thumbnails). The DP2 is OK, in fact while sluggish it is probably no worse than a T3. This is still an underserved market with much larger demand than manufacturers give us credit for.
I would tend to agree that 4/3 can 'hold its own.' That doesn't mean it is 'equal to.'
I haven't used a D-Lux 4 or the Pana equivalent. Those sensors are so small...
I haven't used a D-Lux 4 or the Pana equivalent. Those sensors are so small...
user237428934
User deletion pending
There are a lot of tests that have proven that in-camera stabilization can be as effective as in-lens stabilization.
Your 2nd argument is absolutely true but not important for me because my longest lens is 85mm. I dream of a canon or leica with body-stabilizer so that I have a stabilized 35mm lens.
gavinlg
Veteran
Let me ask this straight. Do you think the image I posted 2 pages back is unacceptable in terms of quality and noise control? Because it is effectively an ISO2000 image from a 10mp 4/3rds sensor. You're here saying that the 4/3rds sensor is an 'evolutionary dead end' due to the fact that it's 'too small' when I have actually posted a sample picture from a 4/3rds camera at high ISO. You can't argue with actual picture proof - I hope you realize that.
Also, In terms of pixel pitch (the size of each pixel on a sensor), here are some cameras:
Panasonic G1: 4.3 pixels square
Olympus E-3: 4.7 pixels square
Canon 50d: 4.7 pixels square
Pentax K20d: 4.9 pixels square
The Canon 50d has the same actual pixel size of the Olympus E-3 (10mp) and is only a tiny little bit bigger than the Panasonic G1 (12mp). The canon guys are saying the next 60d is going to have more pixels again. If the Canon 50d has any advantages in sensor quality over the Olympus E-3 it's because of better sensor technology, NOT sensor size.
See here for E-30 dynamic range comparison with Sony a700, Nikon d300, Canon 50d.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse30/page24.asp
You'll see the Olympus is on par with the sony and nikon in highlight range, beating the Canon, and has more shadow range than the others.
4/3rds DOES compete with all other DSLRs - even full frame ones, and thats talking out of experience. Where it may lack in one area it will make up for in another like superb, smaller lenses.
gavinlg
Veteran
They announced the m4/3rds concept only a year ago. So far I've counted 2 advertisements that are barely anywhere but a hidden away olympus webpage and I've heard no promises from olympus. They presented a mockup end of last year.
I never heard olympus say "We promise we will have a camera out in 3 months time", all they did was announce their new system. The fact that they've taken a year to produce the first one tells me that they've taken their time developing it - a good thing.
Do you really think that olympus are wrong by trying to get a build up of excitement to their m4/3rds offering? I know I for one am excited and I can't wait to see what they bring out. Same for other all over the web and on different forums. It only seems to be a few people on this forum that are too elite - olympus has tested their patience by not meeting their exacting expectations and releasing the camera on their birthday. They've taken too long and now it's not worth bothering about. Save for the fact it's possibly a revolutionary little camera that isn't matched by anything else out at the moment.
Thardy
Veteran
You said it.
wray
Well-known
Olympus UK has informed Dpreview that there will be a 'special event' on June 25th! H-m-m!
gavinlg
Veteran
So what you're saying is you're sick of waiting for the olympus camera that is going to be announced in 2 weeks so you're going to wait an undetermined amount of time - probably over 6 months for a samsung camera that you know nothing about. To add to that, you're waiting on the premise that the sensor is much larger? It's a matter of millimeters!
Poor DR - see my comment above and link to DP review.
Poor focusing - E-3/E-30 currently have fastest AF system in the world and it's a very good system - not as mature as Canon and Nikon but still very good
Barrel distortion on 25mm- That sample I posted 2 pages back was taken with the 25mm pancake, but you already knew that from the massive distortion ruining the image and rendering faces as oblong objects (/sarcasm)
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It's time to stop talking about this loser camera that doesn't exist yet. It clearly is not going to be worth anything, as everyone here already knows, except for a couple of us.
Hey, speaking of small lenses, check out the Panasonic 7-14 compared to the kit lens 14-45mm:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7913
It clearly is not going to be worth anything, as everyone here already knows, except for a couple of us.Hey, speaking of small lenses, check out the Panasonic 7-14 compared to the kit lens 14-45mm:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7913
Thardy
Veteran
With the large sensor, interchangeable lenses, in a (truly) compact form, and hopefully coming out soon I can see this as a great traveling camera. I always pack the dslr for trips but fail to take it along on excursions, opting for the Canon digital compact.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I made VERY sharp images with an OM Zuiko 300/4.5 on FP4. The only stabilisation was my body and my ability. On a crop sensor, esp. 4/3s, a 300mm equivalent lens should be much smaller than that Zuiko glass. Maybe some practice with how to breath when handholding would help.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Wow. Minds can only be played with if the subject is willing.
gavinlg
Veteran
The d3 is the best of the breed - high ISO low noise is it's main strength. It's hardly fair to compare that to a camera that is a fraction of the cost and draws it's strength on other areas. The olympus E-3 however does compare to the d3 at lower ISOs, especially in things like color reproduction and skin tones.
I can tell a lot from a 1000x750px image thanks, I'm not sure why other people can't. I also happened to print that posted pic at A3 a while back to see what it looked like printed and it was true to the screen results. Same sort of look, same sort of minimal noise. The fact that you had similar successful results from your DLUX 4 just proves my point - once over a certain point, sensor size is less important than other things, like actually getting the shot in the first place etc.
I can tell a lot from a 1000x750px image thanks, I'm not sure why other people can't. I also happened to print that posted pic at A3 a while back to see what it looked like printed and it was true to the screen results. Same sort of look, same sort of minimal noise. The fact that you had similar successful results from your DLUX 4 just proves my point - once over a certain point, sensor size is less important than other things, like actually getting the shot in the first place etc.