Jeff Walls' backlit transparencies

[mathiasprinz]

I keep getting back to Jeff Walls backlit transparencies, some of them are uninteresting to me, while others are just very striking. I´m asking myself: How are big transparency-prints made? How are the backlight-cases that Wall uses constructed? Anybody got some info?

 

[dave lackey]

I keep getting back to Jeff Walls backlit transparencies, some of them are uninteresting to me, while others are just very striking. I´m asking myself: How are big transparency-prints made? How are the backlight-cases that Wall uses constructed? Anybody got some info?

Gotta link? :angel:

 

[mathiasprinz]

Gotta link? :angel:

You mean a link to the Jeff Wall pictures? I found these two pictures of his backlit-cases on walls. They look amazing in the pictures but they are a million times greater in person. It´s simply a backlit transparency, he´s been doing it since the late 70s, inspired by the way commercials are presented in public space. Theres a whole publication about Wall called »transparencies«.

http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/wall-n1.jpg
http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/wall-f2.jpg

 

[mathiasprinz]

you can find more of his pictures by just goggling »Jeff Wall«, theres lots to see.

 

[Jamie123]

You mean a link to the Jeff Wall pictures? I found these two pictures of his backlit-cases on walls. They look amazing in the pictures but they are a million times greater in person. It´s simply a backlit transparency, he´s been doing it since the late 70s, inspired by the way commercials are presented in public space. Theres a whole publication about Wall called »transparencies«.

http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/wall-n1.jpg
http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/wall-f2.jpg

I know this thread is somewhat dated but I'll still chime in. I'm quite a fan of Wall's work and have read/listened to quite a lot of interviews, lectures and theoretical texts by and/or about his work so I'm somewhat informed in that area. Other than that I have no authority whatsoever on the matter.

As far as I know the transparencies are made out of Cibachrome material. The larger ones are made out of several (most of the time two) separate strips of Cibachrome because the product was limited in size. If you look up close you can see the seams but he made sure to place them somewhere in the composition, where the line doesn't stand out.

What has to be noted is that Wall hasn't been making those light boxes for quite some time now. As far as I know he originally chose the Cibachrome material due to it's longevity and archival qualities. At the time it was available both as transparency and as paper but he didn't like the reflective quality of the paper.
Cibachrome (and it's successor Ilfochrome) is no longer available today but that probably doesn't matter much to Wall as he's stopped using light boxes a while ago and is now doing regular prints. Needless to say, the archival quality of that kind of material has vastly improved by now so there's no need for the Cibachrome.
It should also be noted that in interviews Wall likes to downplay the amount of inspiration he had from commercial presentation. Supposedly the material reasons noted above were much more important to him. However, it seems that Wall generally likes to downplay the political aspects of his earlier works but that doesn't mean one has to believe him.

 

[MarinB]

Jamie, do you perhaps know if Wall had these Ilfochrome transparencies made the darkroom way, enlarging 8x10 film from the LVT recorder, or were they perhaps laser-exposed (in OCE machines or similar) directly from digital files? Most of his images are digital compositions from many photographs, so the LVT step is inevitable if the former method is used.

 

[awbphotog]

Fujiclear?

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products...rinting_materials/fujiclear_display_material/

 

[Particular]

Jamie, do you perhaps know if Wall had these Ilfochrome transparencies made the darkroom way, enlarging 8x10 film from the LVT recorder, or were they perhaps laser-exposed (in OCE machines or similar) directly from digital files? Most of his images are digital compositions from many photographs, so the LVT step is inevitable if the former method is used.

Since much of this work was done in the 80', my guess would be that his 8x10s were enlarged the traditional way. I'm not sure when lightjet/lambda exposed Ilfochrome became available. Many of his images are also straight shots, so those would have been easy to enlarge. I think many of the most composited images are from the 90's, when new technologies were becoming available, which he could have taken advantage of.
I am obviously just speculating here.

 

[Jamie123]

Jamie, do you perhaps know if Wall had these Ilfochrome transparencies made the darkroom way, enlarging 8x10 film from the LVT recorder, or were they perhaps laser-exposed (in OCE machines or similar) directly from digital files? Most of his images are digital compositions from many photographs, so the LVT step is inevitable if the former method is used.

This I don't know but, as CNNY said, most of the comps are from the 90s and 00s. They are also some of the largest panels so I assume that also had to do with what newer technology made possible.
What I do know, though, is that for the most part his work is shot on 4x5, not 8x10.

 

[mathiasprinz]

Thanks for the infos, everybody. It is a shame that Cibachrome is gone.

 

[Jamie123]

It is a shame that Cibachrome is gone.

Ilfochrome was actually only discontinued in 2012. I would say that it's a shame but then again, I've never actually used it. Just too expensive for me.

Also, if you want to make light boxes like the ones Jeff Wall did you can stil do it without Cibachrome. You can have your film scanned and printed on Fujitrans.

The prints themselves are not all that expensive (about twice the price of a C-print in my town) but the light boxes are. You really have to get good ones otherwise the illumination isn't even.

 

[mathiasprinz]

Ilfochrome was actually only discontinued in 2012. I would say that it's a shame but then again, I've never actually used it. Just too expensive for me.

Also, if you want to make light boxes like the ones Jeff Wall did you can stil do it without Cibachrome. You can have your film scanned and printed on Fujitrans.

The prints themselves are not all that expensive (about twice the price of a C-print in my town) but the light boxes are. You really have to get good ones otherwise the illumination isn't even.

I´ve read about the only recent discontinuation. Thanks about the Fujitrans heads up, I´ll try that sooner or later. Is there actually a source to just buy complete lightboxes? I always thought you´d have to custom build them anyway.

 

[Jamie123]

I´ve read about the only recent discontinuation. Thanks about the Fujitrans heads up, I´ll try that sooner or later. Is there actually a source to just buy complete lightboxes? I always thought you´d have to custom build them anyway.

I think you have to have them custom built and I know some fine art labs that will do that but I don't think there's a ready-made product that you can buy. I guess if it's just for fun and it doesn't have to be too big you could buy a light table and just tape the Fujitrans picture on to it.

But like I said, watch out for quality. A friend of mine had a gallery show a few years back. Inspired by a big Jeff Wall retrospective she had just seen she decided she wanted to use light boxes for some of her images. She thought she had found a cheap source for them in Italy and had them made and shipped to her. When she got them she noticed that the lighting was all over the place so they were totally useless. She then had to order new ones at the local fine art lab which obviously meant she had to pay twice.

 

[pdh]

It is worth investigating electroluminescent (EL) panels, which are relatively much less expensive than custom built lightboxes.
One does have to be careful with EL panels that the colour temperature of the light is in the right range, however.

 

[rogue_designer]

Custom built lightboxes. I think A&I did many of his recent shows.

When we did enlargements similar, we made them horizontally - paper on rolls stuck to a magnetic wall. Ilfochrome (and Fuji's R-type trans) were available in rolls ~ 60" wide - which was as wide as our big commercial processors.

 

[MarinB]

Or you can do reversal printing on Ilfotrans. Same base as Ilfochrome transparency material, just more processing work and more testing to get good results. No base mottle, as the base is not paper. If anyone's interested, I have a good source of properly stored and sealed 30" wide rolls in Europe.

 

[mathiasprinz]

Thanks again everybody, a lot of useful information around here. I´m going to do some more research on the available Ilford products. If i get around to get something printed and lightboxed, i´m gonna let you know.

 

[HHPhoto]

Film material for huge backlit transparencies is produced both by FujiFilm and Kodak (Duratrans, Duraclear).
It is called "Display Film".
It is a common material for advertising, e.g. for fashion shots in shopping malls.

These display films can be exposed just in normal laser printers, the same machines which are used for normal color-negative RA-4 paper.
These films are also developed in RA-4 chemistry.
Therefore lots of professional labs can develop them and offer this service.

Light boxes for them are offered by several manufacturers. You can buy them e.g. here:
www.photostudio13.de (they also develop display film in excellent quality).

Cheers, Jan

 

[MarinB]

Film material for huge backlit transparencies is produced both by FujiFilm and Kodak (Duratrans, Duraclear).

Ilford also makes such material:

 

[HHPhoto]

Ilford also makes such material:

Thanks for the info!

Cheers, Jan