lynnb
Veteran
New Zealand photographer Jono Rotman spent some years gaining the trust of and then photographing the Mighty Mongrels Mob gang in NZ. I think they were taken on 4x5. Excellent work and worth a look.
News article with large images here.
Rotman's site (does not contain large images).
View of large prints in Wellington's city gallery.
News article with large images here.
Rotman's site (does not contain large images).
View of large prints in Wellington's city gallery.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
They were indeed shot on 4x5 and I think they are brilliant.
In the comments I read that the nazi symbols were the gangs way to throw it 'back in the face' of society: everybody hated the gang and everybody hated the nazis, so they upped the scale by adopting the symbols.
nongfuspring
Well-known
They're fairly contentious photographs, one of the guys shortly prior to the exhibition murdered a young man and it's safe to say that all of the photographed either actively participate in rape, random violence, and occasional murder, or at the very least support it. To get initiated into the gang normally the prospects have to savagely beat and rape strangers. They normally pick on marginalised or smaller communities, people that are less likely to be able to speak out. I've personally known of a young pregnant woman that was brutally raped by an initiate while her flatmates and partner were nearly beaten to death and forced to watch.
I'm not against the photographs, but I am against the majority of internet feedback about the show that seems to focus on how scary, exotic and noble the images are, and not the fact that these people are extremely damaged individuals that perpetuate a culture of horrifying violence. Or, that they're people that New Zealand society (by neglect or by manipulation) has produced.
I'm not against the photographs, but I am against the majority of internet feedback about the show that seems to focus on how scary, exotic and noble the images are, and not the fact that these people are extremely damaged individuals that perpetuate a culture of horrifying violence. Or, that they're people that New Zealand society (by neglect or by manipulation) has produced.
mfogiel
Veteran
What is disturbing to me, is that these people seem to be "not dealt with", i.e. either segregated in prison if guilty of violent offences, or taken care of by some social network to help them straighten out their issues. I was actually convinced that such a thing would not be able to exist in a peaceful and highly civilised NZ. Interesting phenomenon.
nongfuspring
Well-known
NZ is very bad at reintegrating former criminals, but it's also no easy task with these people since often they literally don't know of anyone outside of the gang system. It's a de facto tribe; these gangs sprung up after traditional Maori society was dissolved in the "modernisation" of New Zealand. The gang was a means of addressing that lack of community, especially for young men. I've met former gang members before, for them to move into a normal life means essentially to betray all of their friends and family to live in society that doesn't want them, to get a job where they'll barely be paid a living wage.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Let's just focus on the photographic content and not on the cultural and social connotations? Believe it or not, these actually can be separated (contrary to popular opinions on this forum...
).
Those shots are well-lit, the subjects are 'at rest' and their inner being seems to shine through (which is also an achievement from the photographer, to make a subject feel at ease in front of the camera), I like the sharpness and focus and the way they are posed.
).Those shots are well-lit, the subjects are 'at rest' and their inner being seems to shine through (which is also an achievement from the photographer, to make a subject feel at ease in front of the camera), I like the sharpness and focus and the way they are posed.
__jc
Well-known
Let's just focus on the photographic content and not on the cultural and social connotations? Believe it or not, these actually can be separated (contrary to popular opinions on this forum...
Those shots are well-lit, the subjects are 'at rest' and their inner being seems to shine through (which is also an achievement from the photographer, to make a subject feel at ease in front of the camera), I like the sharpness and focus and the way they are posed.
Sorry, Johan, but that might apply if the subject is puppies.
Here, the subject is of way more interest than the lighting and sharpness. They are very very good photos, sure, but that has nothing to do with the way they are posed and everything to do with the photographer gaining access to these people. How did he do that? By facing personal danger and working hard to gain their trust over nearly eight years. That is what transports these pictures from puppy portraits to incredibly valuable work.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I saw these the other day and I think they're superb for what they are and the photographer is to be applauded IMO for venturing into such territory.
We heap accolades onto the photographers who bring us images from war zones without necessarily considering the appalling 'business' of war itself ... so for me there is no need to judge the culture of the gang when viewing these amazing images.
We heap accolades onto the photographers who bring us images from war zones without necessarily considering the appalling 'business' of war itself ... so for me there is no need to judge the culture of the gang when viewing these amazing images.
nongfuspring
Well-known
Let's just focus on the photographic content and not on the cultural and social connotations? Believe it or not, these actually can be separated (contrary to popular opinions on this forum...
Photography looses all social value if it's not considered in context. If we are able to separate cultural and social connotations from photography (which is impossible because photography is fundamentally an artistic/cultural practice) we literally end up with nothing.
I think some are misunderstanding my criticism. I'm not opposing the photographs, I'm against the majority of the inane editorials that reduce these images that are dense and complicated into something purely superficially aesthetic and exotic.
I'm not calling for judgement, what I think is missing from the discussion around these photographs (and others) is context. Context makes good photos better.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I don't know about fear and desperation ... I just see humanity in one of it's many guises Helen.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
helenhill;2496210[B said:
Not at all Helen ... that's the last thing I would assume of you.
DominikDUK
Well-known
+ 10000000 context is very important for any art not only photography. Without knowing the context the photograph, piece of art becomes a pretty object.
The photographs are superb imo they also make you ask question (an important thing) why are they dressed the way they do, what life did the portrayed have etc..
Thank for the link.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Quite amazing, thanks for posting...
Maiku
Maiku
Isn't the idea of documentary and/or journalistic photography to provoke thought?
Questions are raised and answered.
Questions are raised and answered.