Jupiter 9 or...

[Akkorn]

Hello to a great & informative forum

I have an early Kiev 4a (1959) with jupiter 8. I like the 85mm focal lenth to shoot lowlight performance in jazz clubs & theater. Will the Jupiter-9 be sharp at f2 or should I pay more for one of the Zeiss 85's or even a Nikkor 85. Or is a Sonnar a Sonnar?

Thanks,

 

[wlewisiii]

A Sonnar is a Sonnar in this case. The Jupiter 9 is an excellent performer, for me, at all stops. I believe I have some shots from it in my gallery.

William

 

[supermarcel23]

Yes, I advise you to get an early sample, like a fifties KMZ made, and you will get beautiful pictures, at all aperture.
But as it is a very demanding lens, you will have to check the correct focus of your lens to your rangefinder, with a focusing screen . In the case it is out of focus, the J-9 can be easily reshimed.Just unscrew the lens mount from the body of the lens, the shims are under.

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

In the case it is out of focus, the J-9 can be easily reshimed.Just unscrew the lens mount from the body of the lens, the shims are under.

Hi Marcel, would this be the front or the rear lens element?

 

[kiev4a]

Also try to make sure you get a J9 that hasn't been opened by an amateur. The J9 is particularly prone rough focus because the grease hardens. Many have been taken apart to be relubed and many have been reassembled improperly. There are many ways the elements can be inserted back into the focus assembly but there is only ONE correct way. That being said, I you get one that is properly assembled they are great lenses -- or send it to someone like Oleg who knows what he is doing for a relube. But as someone else said, focus is critical -- especially when shooting with it opened up to near maximum.

 

[supermarcel23]

Dear Fedzilla, It is nor the front neither the rear element, but the whole lens mount.
Take the lens with your hands, first hand on the focussing ring, second on the filter thread, just in front the aperture ring. Unscrew the whole assembly. The shims are under.

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Hopefully Supermarcel is around to answer, but I anyone with experience will do- I have my J9 and I have had my first roll with it developed. Nice results when the aperture is stopped down (8 to 16f) and focusing on an object greater than three meters distant. Keep in mind this lens is being used on my Bessa R. I chose to keep shutter speeds at1/60th of second and higher to help elimenate camera shake (or caffeinated photographer shake).

I deliberately began shooting at objects less than three meters distant (f5 to f2) and I am seeing the effect others have described at RFF. I can post shots later, I am at lunch break at the office.

I can describe what I am seeing in fairly good detail though... I chose roses as my subject for the test. When focusing on the nearest blossom the viewfinder will show it to be in proper focus. In the photos the focus seems to be about 5 to 6 cm behind the intended point of focus.

Now... My question- do I add a shim or remove a shim?

I know someone here had answered this before, but I can't seem to locate it.

Any help would appreciated as I am totally in love with how the out of focus backgrounds look with wide apertures.

Also, I was able to resolve the stiffness easily- I removed the front lens group (as Supermarcel described above) then squirted in a bit of Ronsonal, followed by a lot of twisting then 45 minutes in the San Diego sun. To my wife's shagrin, I used a bunch of lint free disposable lens towels (they can be pricey) that we purchase by the box for our eyeglasses (they have zeiss lenses and coatings, none of my cameras have Zeiss lenses). Once the the front assembly was returned everything is "Like Butta." The original lube was not washed away, but loosened.

Thanks for looking-
Bob

 

[kiev4a]

Hopefully Supermarcel is around to answer, but I anyone with experience will do- I have my J9 and I have had my first roll with it developed. Nice results when the aperture is stopped down (8 to 16f) and focusing on an object greater than three meters distant. Keep in mind this lens is being used on my Bessa R. I chose to keep shutter speeds at1/60th of second and higher to help elimenate camera shake (or caffeinated photographer shake).

I deliberately began shooting at objects less than three meters distant (f5 to f2) and I am seeing the effect others have described at RFF. I can post shots later, I am at lunch break at the office.

I can describe what I am seeing in fairly good detail though... I chose roses as my subject for the test. When focusing on the nearest blossom the viewfinder will show it to be in proper focus. In the photos the focus seems to be about 5 to 6 cm behind the intended point of focus.

Now... My question- do I add a shim or remove a shim?

I know someone here had answered this before, but I can't seem to locate it.

Any help would appreciated as I am totally in love with how the out of focus backgrounds look with wide apertures.

Also, I was able to resolve the stiffness easily- I removed the front lens group (as Supermarcel described above) then squirted in a bit of Ronsonal, followed by a lot of twisting then 45 minutes in the San Diego sun. To my wife's shagrin, I used a bunch of lint free disposable lens towels (they can be pricey) that we purchase by the box for our eyeglasses (they have zeiss lenses and coatings, none of my cameras have Zeiss lenses). Once the the front assembly was returned everything is "Like Butta." The original lube was not washed away, but loosened.

Thanks for looking-
Bob

I did the Ronsonal trick on mine, too but when it gets cold it still gets a little stiff.

As to removing shims to get proper focus under three meters on the Bessa, the first think I would do is find out what the standard lens-to-film distance is on the Bessa (I remember reading somewhere it isn't 28.8mm -- the FSU standard). find the difference between the two and either add or subtract that amount of shim.

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

Thanks for the advice- I will seek out that distance for the Bessa R. I am tempted to have mylar shims laser cut to match the two that are inside of my J9. Or, A local laser shop provides spring steel in thicknesses as thin as .003 inch.

 

[RdEoSg]

I know this is an old thread, but I noticed someone said send it to Oleg.. Just who is this Oleg? I just got one of these lenses in Poland this weekend and the focus is a bit slow rough though not unusable. I may sometime like to send it in to be gone through.

 

[rxmd]

I know this is an old thread, but I noticed someone said send it to Oleg.. Just who is this Oleg?

Oleg is Oleg Khalyavin of OK Vintage Cameras (http://www.okvintagecamera.com) in Yoshkar-Ola, Mari-El Republic, Russia. He's a dealer and repairman with a good reputation.

Philipp

 

[brachal]

Oleg sells and services FSU cameras. I haven't used him, but his reputation is one of the best. His web site:

http://www.okvintagecamera.com/

I don't think he's taking lenses alone for service anymore, but you should check the site and maybe send him an email. In the US, www.fedka.com offers FSU lens service.

 

[Santafecino]

Oleg performed miracles on my LTM Jupiter-9. Maybe if you ask very nicely he'll tackle another.

 

[januaryman]

Or contact Yuri at Fedka. I think he gets $45 to CLA or fix a lens. I use him.

 

[Kim Coxon]

I missed this thread the first time around so a couple of thoughts. As far as I am aware, there is little or no problem with the Kiev mount J9's. The LTM ones are a different story though.

Firstly, using ronsonol to "free" them up doesn't really work. There is a very short term improvement but once it evaprated off completely, you are back where you started. The only real soultion is the replace the lubricant (Yak spit) with a good quality fully synthetic grease. I have dealt with a couple of J9's that have had the Ronsonol treatment and it made a terrible mess inside.

The collimation is a different issue. The main shims between the lens unit and focus unit can be adjusted if the focus is out at infinity. If the lens is then out at close range, adjusting these will not cure the problem. It is caused because the "actual" focal length of the lens does not match the "focal length" of the RF cam. You cannot adjusted the RF cam but you can adjust the focal length slightly by adjusting the shims within the lens unit. However, you then need to reset the main shims to restore the infinity focus so the whole process involves some trial and error.

Kim

 

[wolves3012]

The collimation is a different issue. The main shims between the lens unit and focus unit can be adjusted if the focus is out at infinity. If the lens is then out at close range, adjusting these will not cure the problem. It is caused because the "actual" focal length of the lens does not match the "focal length" of the RF cam. You cannot adjusted the RF cam but you can adjust the focal length slightly by adjusting the shims within the lens unit. However, you then need to reset the main shims to restore the infinity focus so the whole process involves some trial and error.

Kim

Kim,

How much do you know about this in a practical sense? Slightly OT to this thread but I have a "spare" J-8 that I want to use on a Leica IIIC. I've tried it out on that body and it's fine for general use and infinity seems good. At 1m however, it focuses a little further than the RF is saying. None of this is a surprise, I expected it to be out.

There are shims under the whole optical block, and the rear group unscrews. What adjustments are needed to get the near focus right then? I'm not after perfection and I'm willing to fiddle and see...any pointers appreciated! Am I correct to think that after adjustment the lens scale would be wrong but the RF would be right?

 

[Spyderman]

There are shims under the whole optical block, and the rear group unscrews. What adjustments are needed to get the near focus right then? I'm not after perfection and I'm willing to fiddle and see...any pointers appreciated!

I think you will have to decrease the distance between front and rear group by filing from the back of the front part after you remove the rear group. (i'm not 100% sure about this, but Brian Sweeney or Kim will know...). then you'll have to use a thinner main shim.

Am I correct to think that after adjustment the lens scale would be wrong but the RF would be right?

Yup, that's right.

 

[Kim Coxon]

About 20 lenses worth. So far I have only come across one that although I could get close, still wasn't perfect. I suspect that one was a "combination" of several lenses.

Kim

Kim,

How much do you know about this in a practical sense?

 

[Kim Coxon]

Be careful here! First of all, is the lens focussing correctly at infinity. If so, does it back focus or front focus close up? If it is back focussing, than you do need to shorten the optical block slightly. However, if it is front focussing because someone has done a relube and put the wrong shims in, then it's the other way round. 😉 Any adjustment here wil affect the focus at infinity so that needs to be adjusted again. However, before diving into the shims, you do need to make sure any relube has been dome properly and the lens put back together correctly. Make sure you sort this first. As has recorded elsewhere, if you take a J9 focos unit apart and put it back together again, it can have an effect on the throw of the cam due to the tolerances in the manufacture. Redoing this several times can bring a lens "back in" that was correct before and save a great deal of effort with the shimming. Certainly, with the J9, you should not to file anything within the lens unit. Some J3's may need it. With the J9, if it is a long way out, you may need to thin the aperture ring slightly if you have had to move the lens unit by any sgnificant amount. This tends to be only with the black ones where they tried to "close the gap" to avoid too much chrome showing.

Kim

I think you will have to decrease the distance between front and rear group by filing from the back of the front part after you remove the rear group. (i'm not 100% sure about this, but Brian Sweeney or Kim will know...). then you'll have to use a thinner main shim.


Yup, that's right.

 

[wolves3012]

Be careful here! First of all, is the lens focussing correctly at infinity. If so, does it back focus or front focus close up? If it is back focussing, than you do need to shorten the optical block slightly. However, if it is front focussing because someone has done a relube and put the wrong shims in, then it's the other way round. 😉 Any adjustment here wil affect the focus at infinity so that needs to be adjusted again. However, before diving into the shims, you do need to make sure any relube has been dome properly and the lens put back together correctly. Make sure you sort this first. As has recorded elsewhere, if you take a J9 focos unit apart and put it back together again, it can have an effect on the throw of the cam due to the tolerances in the manufacture. Redoing this several times can bring a lens "back in" that was correct before and save a great deal of effort with the shimming. Certainly, with the J9, you should not to file anything within the lens unit. Some J3's may need it. With the J9, if it is a long way out, you may need to thin the aperture ring slightly if you have had to move the lens unit by any sgnificant amount. This tends to be only with the black ones where they tried to "close the gap" to avoid too much chrome showing.

Kim

Rather than hijack this thread I'll start a new one...