Jupter 12 does not mount on Leica

[alexM]

My newly acquired Jupiter-12 mounts fine on Zorki- 4, but when I try to mount it on Leica IIIC it does not screw all the way in. Looks like the lens is lacking thread near metal flange.

Is it typical for Russian lenses, and what's more important, can it be fixed?

Thanks,
Alex

 

[CameraQuest]

its not all that unusual,
Ruskie QC is all over the place,
including the lens mounts.

some days the factory Vodka ration was better than others.

Even so, you will find many fans in our FSU forum.
- Former Soviet Union

Stephen

 

[ray*j*gun]

My J12 screws into my IIIc, IIIf and IIIa fine as well as my 2 Zorkis. Sounds like the lens is not right. Except for some very slight pitch differences with FSU lenses vs Leica the J12 should be completely compatible with your IIIc.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I am one of the fans and, so far, out of 28 lenses (from the 1930's to the 90's) one has been in need of a little TLC but it cost 50p; that's about 75 US cents or 78 Euro cents...

Regards, David

PS Yes, I am aware that I'd really need a sample size of about 200 but I can't afford them on my pension. And, anyway, a lot of people have one unlucky experience and condemn them forever. OTOH, I've had two dreadful lenses of the same sort of age, that should fit FED's, from a well known German maker.

 

[Fadedsun]

Funny this thread popped up because I was currently wondering if any of the Jupiter lenses worked on the Leica LTMs. I was reading another forum where a few people advised against it as the lenses aren't specifically designed for these cameras and could cause problems (not sure how true that is). Also, all the info I checked seemed to point to the Jupiter lenses being M and Contax mounts. Actually, I made a mistake. I thought m39 meant bayonet mount. So, it should fit on a ltm no problem?

 

[alexM]

I believe relatively "newer" lenses - from 1960's and after, will mount without a problem. I have a newer Jupiter 8 which fits just fine. I also have a collapsible FED lens from 1957 that mounts fine as well. The lenses I have problems with, are Jupiters 8 and 12 of 1958 and 1959.

On the other hand, while the newer Russian lenses will mount fine on Leica, they might be inferior to the lenses made in 50s.

Hope this helps,
Alex

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

The trouble is that people are really saying that a 50 or 60 year old lens doesn't fit a 50 or 60 year old camera and the two aren't even the same make.

Age and being second-hand mean that the lens and body could be hopelessly wrong or mildly wrong. And, as I've said, looking at just one of each makes things worse.

To comment accurately about the QC of a 50 or 60 year old lens or camera body you need to get about 200 of them, brand new and check them all. Then you'd be able to say that it looks like such and such a percentage were below par. Or you could get hold of the factory records and working drawings from the 1950's...

Instead we comment on stuff bought over the internet from strangers and blame the factory for the faults. Although, having said that, I've yet to see anyone blame Leica because FED lenses don't work on their cameras...

Odd isn't it? It's almost as if something else was driving peoples' opinions.

Regards, David

PS Can you imagine a car forum where people attack either BMW or Audi because the spare wheels aren't interchangeable between the two makes?

 

[traveler_101]

My newly acquired Jupiter-12 mounts fine on Zorki- 4, but when I try to mount it on Leica IIIC it does not screw all the way in. Looks like the lens is lacking thread near metal flange.

Is it typical for Russian lenses, and what's more important, can it be fixed?

Thanks,
Alex

Everyone says that they have no problems, but I had exactly the same problem with the one - and only - Soviet (Ukrainian, I think) lens I purchased, an Industar 61. It wouldn't screw on to my IIIf. Can it be fixed? No. The thread pitch is different. The idea that this has something to do with the age of the lens, I don't know. Mine was one of the more recent versions from the 1980s I recall. I sold it. I also ordered an Industar 69, originally designed for the half-frame Chaika (Seagull) camera for use on an Olympus E-P1. The lens was junk, won't focus. Sent it back and am still waiting for my money. Not very good luck with former Soviet Union (FSU) lenses.

There is a man in New York who has a good reputation; he sells decent FSU equipment and stands behind it. Here it is FEDKA - http://www.fedka.com/catalog/

 

[rodinal]

The big protruding rear element of the Jupiter-12 will touch the light baffling of some LTM cameras. I've experienced this myself, but don't remember if this was with a Barnack camera (I have one of each model) or a Canon RF.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Ok, I have 3 Barnacks and my J12 (black) fits and focuses well on all 3. However, FSU thread pitch is different than German Leica lenses and so some (not all) of the Russian lenses will need shims to get the focus to approximate the Leics version. There is on this forum somewhere a detailed discussion of this but I can't find it. The thing with the FSU's is quality control which can cause samples to vary in terms of their fitment. I had a Zorki where a FEd thread mount lens would not fit it.....that really sucked. BTW I also use the J12 with an adapter on my M2 and it doesnt touch the curtain...I happen to have a really good example of the lens and it performs better than my other 35's some of which cost many times the price I paid for the J12.

 

[David Hughes]

Everyone says that they have no problems, but I had exactly the same problem with the one - and only - Soviet (Ukrainian, I think) lens I purchased, an Industar 61. It wouldn't screw on to my IIIf. Can it be fixed? No. The thread pitch is different. The idea that this has something to do with the age of the lens, I don't know. Mine was one of the more recent versions from the 1980s I recall. I sold it. I also ordered an Industar 69, originally designed for the half-frame Chaika (Seagull) camera for use on an Olympus E-P1. The lens was junk, won't focus. Sent it back and am still waiting for my money. Not very good luck with former Soviet Union (FSU) lenses.

There is a man in New York who has a good reputation; he sells decent FSU equipment and stands behind it. Here it is FEDKA - http://www.fedka.com/catalog/

Hi,

Threads can be damaged, especially on lens mounts. Decent technicians who work on Leicas often or should have the right taps and dies for recutting them. They have them because they are needed.

And, a while ago I was talking to an experienced technician at Zeiss and he told me that the most common problem he gets is caused by people cross threading parts and then wondering why the optics are out.

Also my experience in other fields tells me that there are a lot of people who think repairs are simple matters but who damage whatever they touch. And the number of people who don't understand how to use or choose a screwdriver frightens me at times...

Regards, David

 

[rumbliegeos]

I owned a 1970s Jupiter 12 and 1980s Jupiter 8 and both worked well on my IIIf. Both had a greater susceptibility to flare than more modern lenses, but they were incredible values given their other optical qualities.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The big protruding rear element of the Jupiter-12 will touch the light baffling of some LTM cameras. I've experienced this myself, but don't remember if this was with a Barnack camera (I have one of each model) or a Canon RF.

Coupling lever
I have seen cases were the rear element of the J12 was interfering with the coupling lever of the rangefinder; this is caused by the shape of the J12 since it provides very little room for the coupling lever. There is a cure though: in most cases the lever can be raised a little bit - but be careful, after you've tuned the rangefinder lever for you J12, you should test if the lever still works fine with your other lenses.

Securing Bracket
In some camera's there is also a kind of metal bracket behind the coupling lever; this bracket prevents the coupling lever to be pushed in too much backwards in the camera. In the Leica Service Manual this is called "securing bracket" or in German "Sicherungswinkel". You also find them in Zorki's and some Feds. The rear element of the J12 can come into touch with this securing bracket, and could also be damaged by it.

 

[bobby_novatron]

I believe relatively "newer" lenses - from 1960's and after, will mount without a problem. I have a newer Jupiter 8 which fits just fine. I also have a collapsible FED lens from 1957 that mounts fine as well. The lenses I have problems with, are Jupiters 8 and 12 of 1958 and 1959.

On the other hand, while the newer Russian lenses will mount fine on Leica, they might be inferior to the lenses made in 50s.

Hope this helps,
Alex

+1 for this from personal experience. I have owned a couple of J-12 lenses, black in colour, made in the 1970's. No issues mounting on any of my LTM or M-mount bodies (with adapter).

The mounting problems seem to be more common on the pre-1960's J-12 lenses. But YMMV. As it was mentioned, quality control was all over the place with these FSU products.