Just a thought...

David Hughes

David Hughes

David Hughes
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Hi,

One of my strangest habits is trying to get the original instruction manual for cameras in the collection. There are a lot of people out there who won't understand why anyone would want any version of the instructions, as you may have noticed.

Anyway, if I assume that English language versions of the manual don't exist because the camera was never exported then, am I being reasonable?

I've never, despite years of trying, managed to get an English manual published by the USSR makers for FED and Zorki 1's and the Kiev 2. So I assume these were never exported.

Based on that I assume that all the FED 1's, Zorki 1's and Kiev 2's discussed on forums were second-hand ones bought years after they left the factory...

Has anyone ever seen manuals in English, from the factory for them?

Regards, David

PS The FED 2 has manuals in English, I guess they marked the start of the exports.
 
Interesting, all the original manuals I've acquired for my ones are in Russian and have the same or almost the same date as the cameras. (Meaning I've a 1950 Russian manual with a vintage 1951 FED 1 and so on.)

Oops, I forgot to mention that they'd have "Made in the USSR" on them if they were for export in line with that American law of 1871.

That supports my theory that none of the FED 1's, Zorki 1's and Kiev 2's were exported outside of the USSR.

Never the less, I'd like to hear from anyone with alternative information.

Regards, David
 
I had always thought that there was no direct importing of Russian cameras into UK during the '40s and '50s. When things started to thaw a bit, think the Earl's Court exhibition 1961 (???), stuff became available and I guess TOE became official importers.

Might explain the lack of English manuals??????
 
zuikologist said:
The cameramanuals website seems to show English language manuals


http://www.cameramanuals.org/russian_pdf/zorki.pdf

Or here

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110147
Click to expand...

Hi,

The first link takes us to a manual that was written long after the event. It tells us in the introduction that "a total of 835502 Zorki cameras were produced". In other words it's interesting but not original. The bit about the guarantee is very interesting...

The second link takes us firstly back to the above link and then to a copy of the manual in Russian from 1955.

I'm hoping to nail down when we English speakers first got hold of new cameras. Knowing how thorough they were in those days I'd expect an English manual to be made available before they were exported to English speaking countries.

FWIW, I was a civil servant and had to deal with my opposite number in Moscow (and every other country/admin in the world) to do my job and I know how thorough some where, how slow others were and how slapdash some were. The USSR was very thorough but medium fast and kept their promises, one of the better ones to deal with, imo. I expect that's a surprise to some people...

Regards, David
 
Last edited:
Dralowid said:
I had always thought that there was no direct importing of Russian cameras into UK during the '40s and '50s. When things started to thaw a bit, think the Earl's Court exhibition 1961 (???), stuff became available and I guess TOE became official importers.

Might explain the lack of English manuals??????
Click to expand...

Hi,

Yes, I suspect that and am hoping for concrete evidence in the form of dates in the English and original manuals.

That I hope will then nail down which cameras were only here from second-hand sales and so on. Then I can see their faults as being due to poor after-sales service or poor quality control.

My earliest English manual is for a late version of the FED 2 and the Kiev 4. Both manuals are very nice examples of how it should be done, imo. Just looking at the pictures in the Russian Zorki 1 (1955) manual gives an idea of how thorough they were; although I prefer the boy and girl illustrating the FED 2 manual!

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
That supports my theory that none of the FED 1's, Zorki 1's and Kiev 2's were exported outside of the USSR.
Click to expand...

As far as I remember the pre-war Fed1 was the first soviet 35mm camera, the Zorki 1 was a Fed1 built by KMZ because Fed couldn't cope with the demand and the Kiev 2 was the first postwar camera.

At that time I always assumed the Soviet were so desperate to satisfy their internal market that they never thought to export these early cameras, especially because they were carbon copies of Leicas and Contaxes.

Also, it appears that most of the "interesting" designs were kept for internal use only, like the Kiev10/15 and the Almaz, in the UK AFAIK they were exported anything more sophisticated than Zorki 4s and Zenits.
 
I bought a new in box Fed 5b on ebay a few years ago. The seller was on the West Coast US but moved here from Russia so no doubt he brought the camera over with him. The manual is only in Russian & I was surprised that a camera as late as a Fed 5b would only be printed in Russian be it an export or not.
 
Wulfthari said:
... Also, it appears that most of the "interesting" designs were kept for internal use only, like the Kiev10/15 and the Almaz, in the UK AFAIK they were exported anything more sophisticated than Zorki 4s and Zenits.
Click to expand...

Hi,

During my reserch I found adverts and a review for a Kiev in 1973 in the UK magazine "Photo Technique" but can't lay my hands on a copy now. The review was in September '73. By 74 adverts for the Zorki 4 were appearing and there were mentions of the Horizont. And later on lots of the Lomo ones; the Symbol etc.

Trying to nail down when they first appeared here is difficult. And a very expensive leak in the roof destroyed my collection of 70's magazines. Luckily one or two survived but not the ones I want now.

Regards, David
 
gb hill said:
I bought a new in box Fed 5b on ebay a few years ago. The seller was on the West Coast US but moved here from Russia so no doubt he brought the camera over with him. The manual is only in Russian & I was surprised that a camera as late as a Fed 5b would only be printed in Russian be it an export or not.
Click to expand...

Hi,

You were lucky to get a new one in a box.

There never seems to be rhyme nor reason to manuals. Some of my modern cameras have 3, 4 or 5 languages in the manual and sometimes the back-up camera will have the same manual but just the English part. Luckily the USSR ones have a clear date shown and I was hoping to pin things down from that. It shows one advantage of a committee designing things...

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
Hi,

During my reserch I found adverts and a review for a Kiev in 1973 in the UK magazine "Photo Technique" but can't lay my hands on a copy now. The review was in September '73. By 74 adverts for the Zorki 4 were appearing and there were mentions of the Horizont. And later on lots of the Lomo ones; the Symbol etc.

Trying to nail down when they first appeared here is difficult. And a very expensive leak in the roof destroyed my collection of 70's magazines. Luckily one or two survived but not the ones I want now.

Regards, David
Click to expand...

Which Kiev? Kiev 10?
 
David,

Came across something else that points to an early 1960s date for 'official' UK imports from USSR ...limited numbers of imports of the Moskvich started in 1961.

Now that really was a dreadful car!
 
Dralowid said:
David,

Came across something else that points to an early 1960s date for 'official' UK imports from USSR ...limited numbers of imports of the Moskvich started in 1961.

Now that really was a dreadful car!
Click to expand...

Hi,

Everything seems to be pointing to the early 60's.

I wonder if there's a forum for the UK Moskvich owners, stranger things have happened.

Regards, David
 
From the Lada Owners club website

"SATRA MOTORS LIMITED
Background Information

The Company was formed in March 1960 and originally traded as Thompson and Taylor (Russian Cars) Limited, dealing exclusively in Soviet car imports."

1960 again... Getting closer to nailing the date but I am not about to start reading up the minutes of meetings with Russian trade delegations.

Well, there is a Hungarian Moskvich OC but I would imagine the true Moskvich enthusiast would object to being lumped together with Lada, Yugo, Zastava etc etc

Do we have a motorcycle enthusiast on the forum who can give us a date for the beginning of Ural Mars imports into the UK? What a device!

I also remember a Moskvich estate which had a 'heads up display' on the windscreen for the speedometer...such innovation!
 
Hi,

Mention of the Moskvich reminded me that I'd seen one at some show and then it all came back; meaning in 1961 at Earls Court. I scrounged a copy of Pravda because I wanted to keep my Russian going, which was a waste of time as every one wants to practice their English, even the French!

There's a lot about it (the Soviet Exhibition) here:

http://www.openbookpublishers.com/htmlreader/PPR/chap20.html

So I guess the late 50's saw the start of the thaw and explain my FED 2's manual being in English.

As for TOE, I remembered a few magazines salvaged from the loft/attic and found them, then spent the morning going through the adverts in them.

These were available in 1973/74:

Lubitel; Zenit E; Zenit B; Zorki 4; Kiev 4; Horizont and a FED.

The FED was mentioned by an advert for the USSR universal finder as being in stock, ditto most of the lenses we know and the Leningrad meter. No mention of which FED or meter.

Off topic, there was an 8 page advert for the OM-1: I can't imagine that happening today. And in an advert for a lot of bits and pieces were some Taylor Hobson, f/2 50mm lenses to clear in the LTM version at 36 pounds...

Didn't they copy a BMW motor bike too?

Anyway, I now reckon I'm safe when I say that the FED 1's and Zorki 1's were not sold here and so all those seen were second-hand and not new. So much for QC moans...

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
Oops, I forgot to mention that they'd have "Made in the USSR" on them if they were for export in line with that American law of 1871.

That supports my theory that none of the FED 1's, Zorki 1's and Kiev 2's were exported outside of the USSR.
Click to expand...

I have seen Kiev 2s with that "Made in USSR" on the hot shoe. The one I just saw possessed a serial number from 1954, and it also had the dual script.
 
steveyork said:
I have seen Kiev 2s with that "Made in USSR" on the hot shoe. The one I just saw possessed a serial number from 1954, and it also had the dual script.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Thanks, that suggests I may still find the manual for my Kiev 2. Now I'm wondering if they were for export to the USA and not the UK. That would also make it rare for me.

Nothing is ever simple is it?

Regards, David
 
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