Just developed Rollei Retro 80S - and I am confused

[traveler_101]

Hi guys,

Never used it before . . . the thing is that developed in Rodinal/R09, stopped and fixed the roll, rinsed it and opened the tank: and found images on a clear substrate. What? I didn't get it - fixing means turning the film dark, right? I panicked, thought maybe my (somewhat old) fixer was at fault. So I mixed a new batch and re-fixed. Same result.

Googling like mad and I see that the film is based on a clear plastic so although I could not confirm on line, am I right to assume that it is supposed to be clear after the fixer?

I hung it to dry. It got 10 minutes of fixing in total, which might be problematic.

I am not hugely experienced, but have used a lot of Kodak, also Fomapan and Ilford and have never seen anything like this film. There is a clarity to the negatives, but it still looks wrong.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

In my experience, there are a bunch of films that give you a clear substrate...I haven't shot 80S but it sounds normal to me.

 

[DominikDUK]

Sounds like either underexposure or overdevelopment or both. The film is made by a quality manufacturer (Agfa-Gevaert) so the problems shouldn't be a result of bad QC, another culprit could be your camera, shutter not working proberly. The emulsion is poured on a clear PET-base which makes the film a good choice for reversal processing.

Sorry to hear about your negative experience with the film.

Wish you a happy new year and better future experiences with the film.

 

[Whateverist]

Retro 400s has a clear base, so I don't think it's abnormal for 80s. As long as the images themselves look okay you should be fine.

 

[iamzip]

According to the description on Freestyle Photo's website, "The emulsion of Rollei Retro 80S is coated onto a transparent synthetic base which ensures long-term dimensional stability."

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/810810-Rollei-Retro-80S-80-ISO-35mm-x-100-ft.

I know the rollei digibase color negative films have a transparent base with the intent that it be scanned rather than printed. The description for this also states that it is ideal for scanning.

 

[sevo]

What do you mean by "clear" and "dark"? Fixing is supposed to turn the opaque white film black on a clear substrate, by dissolving the remaining silver halides (which are opaque white) and leaving the black metallic silver which the developer reduced on exposed parts of the film. Many modern 35mm films have a dyed base, so the clear substrate may have a grey or pink stain, but it should still be transparent in the unexposed areas...

Retro 80s is a aerial/process film, with a completely clear base. Did that confuse you? Or is the film WHITE in spite of fixing? Then the fixer has turned bad...

 

[DominikDUK]

It seems that I misunderstood your post if you have a normal negative and you are just bothered by the clear base. You can lay your doubts to rest this is normal for the Rollei Films. You have to be a bit more careful with fingerprints, but the film base is actually a lot stronger than the Tri-Acetate base. Lightpiping can be a problems with the pet-base just be more careful while loading and unloading the film.

 

[taemo]

i developed my only rollei 80s 2 days ago and it was clear compared to the across 100 i developed along.
for some reason the pakon wouldnt scan it (only one frame then it stops) so i had to use my v600

 

[traveler_101]

What do you mean by "clear" and "dark"? Fixing is supposed to turn the opaque white film black on a clear substrate, by dissolving the remaining silver halides (which are opaque white) and leaving the black metallic silver which the developer reduced on exposed parts of the film. Many modern 35mm films have a dyed base, so the clear substrate may have a grey or pink stain, but it should still be transparent in the unexposed areas...

Retro 80s is a aerial/process film, with a completely clear base. Did that confuse you? Or is the film WHITE in spite of fixing? Then the fixer has turned bad...

Hi,

Thanks for your detailed answer. By "dark" I mean greyish as opposed to the whitish roll of film I once saw because my fixer died on me. So yes, the typical film I have used (Kodak Tri-X) is turned greyish and transparent by the fixer. By "clear" I mean completely transparent, almost like the old style transparent Scotch© tape. So not white at all. I guess I am alright then!

 

[traveler_101]

It seems that I misunderstood your post if you have a normal negative and you are just bothered by the clear base. You can lay your doubts to rest this is normal for the Rollei Films. You have to be a bit more careful with fingerprints, but the film base is actually a lot stronger than the Tri-Acetate base. Lightpiping can be a problems with the pet-base just be more careful while loading and unloading the film.

No problem. I don't think my post was very carefully written. "Bothered" - I suppose that is a good word for it; let me come up with a better one: flabbergasted. Never came across anything like that film before and I thought there must be something wrong.

Thanks for the advice on handling - had some problem getting the last couple of frames onto the reel so there well may be some fingerprints there.

May I ask: what developer do you use with this film?

 

[traveler_101]

According to the description on Freestyle Photo's website, "The emulsion of Rollei Retro 80S is coated onto a transparent synthetic base which ensures long-term dimensional stability."

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/810810-Rollei-Retro-80S-80-ISO-35mm-x-100-ft.

I know the rollei digibase color negative films have a transparent base with the intent that it be scanned rather than printed. The description for this also states that it is ideal for scanning.

Thanks. High quality merchandise then - at least you get quality for the money. It is costly film.

 

[ashfaque]

What Savo said.

More specifically, if you're talking about clear/transparent film rebate after fixing, it is fine. It is what it makes is a good candidate for B&W slide too. 🙂

Bests,
Ashfaque

 

[DominikDUK]

No problem. I don't think my post was very carefully written. "Bothered" - I suppose that is a good word for it; let me come up with a better one: flabbergasted. Never came across anything like that film before and I thought there must be something wrong.

Thanks for the advice on handling - had some problem getting the last couple of frames onto the reel so there well may be some fingerprints there.

May I ask: what developer do you use with this film?

I use Rodinal 1+50 14min@20°C this combo still gives a bit higher contrast than you'll get with normal non aerial films but since I mostly use it with uncoated or single coated lenses the bit of boost in contrast is welcome.

 

[ashfaque]

Some useful links:

For somewhat normal contrast, with Rodinal (@ISO 80) and Diafine (@125)

For IR & regular photography:
(1) Peter Jones http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132115
(2) Martin Zimelka's article and album
(3) Yannick's caffenol formula

I'm sure there are others too. 🙂

 

[traveler_101]

Some useful links:

For somewhat normal contrast, with Rodinal (@ISO 80) and Diafine (@125)

For IR & regular photography:
(1) Peter Jones http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132115
(2) Martin Zimelka's article and album
(3) Yannick's caffenol formula

I'm sure there are others too. 🙂

Thanks - much appreciated. Happy New Year all!

 

[Santtu Määttänen]

I love 80s and 400s! They're bit difficult in the begining, but once you get the hand of it, they simply shine. Only "real" issue I have is that they simply can't handle push developing in any developer I've tried. Other then that, they're my go to film these days in 135 and 120 alike. When in need of pushing, I'll go back to either trix or hp5.

Besides for larger 120 formats, they make kick-ass contact prints as well. If only this would be available in 18x24cm size..

 

[Alpsman]

Rollei Retro 80S and 400S are aerial-films.
They have an S-shaped curve and are very hard. If ya want to have greytones expose them at half speed.
Ans yes, the material is clear PET. You can tow a car with this film. It is very agingresistable and does not break as easy as normal film when used in the cold.
I use both these films especially for long distance shots with long telelenses as well as for architecture and foggy hazy days.

 

[Mablo]

The clear base of 80s and 400s comes out of the tank completely straight and flat which helps scanning a lot. I like to shoot the 400s at EI 125 and develop it in R09 1+25 for 8 minutes.

 

[ChrisLivsey]

for some reason the pakon wouldnt scan it (only one frame then it stops) so i had to use my v600

If the exposures on the film are not clearly distinguished from each other, by exposure leaving an obvious frame gap, then many scanners can't see where one frame ends and another begins, some fail gracefully others less so.

 

[traveler_101]

I love 80s and 400s! They're bit difficult in the begining, but once you get the hand of it, they simply shine. . .

Bought two rolls a couple of years ago before the collapse of the global oil price which has made everything frightfully expensive in NOK. I have one more roll to try to learn how to use it properly (lol). Can't wait to scan this roll and see what I have!

. . .
Besides for larger 120 formats, they make kick-ass contact prints as well. If only this would be available in 18x24cm size..

Read that in 135 it is used mainly for scanning. Too much contrast build up for printing.

Do you always use red or orange filters with this film?

Developers? After developing and discovering my "problem," or non-problem, I began surfing the web and found a number of people saying NOT to use Rodinal with this film because it builds up too much contrast . . . and I had just finished developing using Rodinal. These scans might be somewhat "interesting" 😀

Rollei Retro 80S and 400S are aerial-films.
They have an S-shaped curve and are very hard. If ya want to have greytones expose them at half speed.

. . . I like to shoot the 400s at EI 125 and develop it in R09 1+25 for 8 minutes.

Well under certain special circumstances I may wish to see blacks and whites emphasised even at the cost of minimising mid tones, or at least it would be interesting to experiment - but this film may be too expensive for that purpose.

For normal shooting . . . pulling . . . to that extent? But I read that Rollei Retro requires spot on metering because unlike Tri-X for example, it has very little exposure latitude.

Rollei Retro 80S and 400S are aerial-films.
. . .
Ans yes, the material is clear PET. You can tow a car with this film. It is very agingresistable and does not break as easy as normal film when used in the cold.
I use both these films especially for long distance shots with long telelenses as well as for architecture and foggy hazy days.

It says here that they make high precision mechanical parts with PET, and it is very resistant to absorption of moisture.
PET-Polyetylentereftalat (Sustadur, Ertalyte)
Spesielt egnet for mekaniske deler som krever høy presisjon, Materialet er hardt slitesterkt og har lavfriksjonskoeffisient, samt lav fuktighetsabsorbsjon