Just got a Zorki 4K and I think I broke it

[lollybo]

I just ordered a Zorki 4k off ebay. Shipped from Kiev, you know trying to support our buddies. I excitedly shot a few times and it worked without issues. I know already not to change shutter speed without cocking. However, the last few shots the shutter wouldn't fully cock, and then subsequently it stopped cocking at all. The film rewind lever works, but it just keeps winding, as if I rotated the locking ring around the shutter to unwind mode (this happens even with the collar both fully to the left and right).

I found a helpful post- a nob on the rewind level engages another nob by the shutter winding it. But my nobs do not intertwine, despite the setting on the collar, it seems like one is too short and it doesn't cock correctly. I can post a picture if I need. Therefore, winding just leads to the top nob continuously spinning, without engaging the bottom nob on the shutter and engaging it.

Anyone else run into this problem and knows how to fix it?

 

[analogish]

I don't think that you broke something. It's the same with my Zorki. When I turn the locking ring from the "rewind" position back to the "advance" position, the shutter cocking mechanism doesn't pop back to it's original position. With my Zorki, I turn the locking ring into a position between "rewind" and "advance", then I press the shutter button a few times until the mechanism returns back to the position where the advance knob cocks the shutter. Just play with the shutter button when the camera is open. A Zorki is not a Leica.

Excerpt from Leonard Gaunt's "The Zorki & FED Book" (p. 44): "... On the Zorkis, turn the collar anti-clockwise and then press and turn the shutter release clockwise to make sure that it is unlocked. It will spring up fully, however, only when you operate the film transport lever or knob."

 

[Coldkennels]

I don't think that you broke something. It's the same with my Zorki. When I turn the locking ring from the "rewind" position back to the "advance" position, the shutter cocking mechanism doesn't pop back to it's original position. With my Zorki, I turn the locking ring into a position between "rewind" and "advance", then I press the shutter button a few times until the mechanism returns back to the position where the advance knob cocks the shutter. Just play with the shutter button when the camera is open. A Zorki is not a Leica.

That's... not how a Zorki should behave. And it's fixable.

The Zorki 4 (and 4K) is a horrendously flawed design. I've never seen one that didn't have a similar problem at least once - hell, I was given one (in mint condition) for free because it had the exact same problem.

Two possibilities, off the top of my head:
1) something's got stuck under the top plate. The way the slow speed mechanism was retrofitted in is usually the biggest cause of problems on the 4/4K. I dismantled mine and found the pawl (I believe that's what it's called?) that controls the shutter was stuck/tangled in the mechanism.
2) (and this is more applicable to @Lavertezzo) the lubricant in the mechanism has dried and gotten sticky, causing the lower gear to stick in place instead of popping back up when the shutter is fired. Cleaning and relubricating with modern lubricant fixes this, but you can sometimes get around that with applied heat (a radiator will do) and exercise (repeatedly tripping the shutter).

 

[lollybo]

You guys are brilliant this really helped fix part of the problem- I did exactly what @Lavertezzo recommended. I put the locking ring in the middle, and fiddled with the shutter, this caused it to "pop" back up so now the nobs are engaged, thanks! Going on to your suggestion @Coldkennels, you are probably right about the lube going bad causing the shutter to stick.

Well, now I am running into a bigger problem. The shutter gear won't cock, now that I got the nubs to engage and the shutter in the right place, it's stuck. Trying to cock it does not cock the shutter the gear does not move. I know the shutter isn't cocked as pressing the shutter won't release it either. Again the camera was working when it arrived, so I don't know what kind of problem this is, I figured something internal to the shutter cocking mechanism? I hope it does not require a full camera disassembly as I don't think I will be up for t hat.

 

[analogish]

A very "stupid" question: are you sure the locking ring is in "advance" position? Maybe you also have a sticky lubricant problem too as @Coldkennels said. I am out of ideas.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Those cameras sold unserviced. Even if the claim they did. I know it for sure from Ukraine based person who was repairing them.

And if gunk was never cleaned, it will acting up.

I had non sticky 4K. As usual, with uneven exposures due to most common problem with FSU crude shutters.

Best you could do is to put it on shelf and order the rest, if not already. From first FED to FED6.
They looks great on shelf in the row.
All Ukraine made.

And here is greater from low chances what FED6 is going to actually work. I had one and it was the only working from entire FSU row I had.

Due to fresher gunk in it.

 

[xayraa33]

Oleg from OKVintage cameras explains that The Zorki 4 and 4k and some Fed cameras had a slight mechanical advantage on the fast shutter speeds then on the classic Leica Barnack design and its other copies. A hidden secret of Soviet camera shutters

 

[lollybo]

Thanks for all the help guys. I wanted to follow up and say that I "fixed" the camera and it is perfectly working now. I messaged the ebay seller- you all are right that the lubricants are crude, the shutter can get stuck sometimes and he recommended gently holding down the shutter button while turning (WITHOUT lifting) the shutter speed dial. I guess this gives the shutter a forward assist, when shooting normally you can see the shutter speed dial move, and if it gets stuck turning the shutter speed dial is the way to try to force it to go forward. This worked, I heard the shutter fire when I did this, and the camera subsequently wound and fired multiple times without issues.

From the Ebay seller, in case it can help other people out:

Hello,
Thank you for your kind words.
Strong shocks are applied to the cameras during shipping, sometimes the gear may get to not regular position. Let's try to run it. Before we start, I have to say once again how the shutter works.
1) Please, remember to change shutter speeds only when the shutter is completely wound. It's very important! If this rule is violated, after attempt of changing shutter speed on released (not wound) shutter, the camera behaviour may be the same as you discribe your camera now.
2) When the shutter fires, the shutter speed dial start rotating, because it's connected to one of the curtains. It makes almost a full turn around it's axis. Please, try to help it. Hold the fire button pressed and try to turn the dial in both directions. Don't lift up the dial! When you lift it up, you are trying to change the shutter speed. This operation can brake the camera! You don;t have to try to change shutter speed, just try to turn the dial and help it to go. Our goal is to make the shutter fire.
If no success, please, show me in what position shutter speed dial is set now. The picture will be appreciated.