just how good are the russian knockoffs?

I paid $45 (with shipping from Kiev) for my FED-2 with one of those Industar 26 normal lenses and a smelly case. I got my J-12 for $55 PP.

I don't know where I can get a working 35mm SLR (not to mention rangefinder) body and two lenses which are both quite excellent for that kind of money, unless I go to yard sales or troll Craigslist.

Roland, if you have one, I would love a $100 Hassy 500C. I got cash in hand. I'll even pay you $40 for a Distagon.

He meant for $100-$150 more than a CLA'd russian rangefinder you can buy a 500C body, and that's true. The body ONLY of a Hasselblad 500C is not expensive, $150-200. It gets costly when you add the A12 back and 80mm Planar, which brings you to $700 or so for a user condition camera outfit.
 
regarding VF's and RF's, the ones on my Leica IIIc are no better than on my FED-I... but my IIIc actually works... 🙂

I have a shelf load of FSU rangefinders on my shelf that don't work... in fact the only one that actually works is my nasty FED-5b, which is too ugly to use... even when I tried to go through Fedka, I went through 3 that almost worked... and then gave up. No one seems to have this bad luck with Leicas (one maybe, 10 lemons in a row, never).

The lenses can be good as has been said.
 
Seriously Now... FSU gear is not nearly as bad as some folks here claim. I have seen plenty of cheaper fixed lens japanese RF's whose quality wasn't much better, and in fact slightly worse when you consider such things as- the chrome plating, thickness of the top covers and stamped parts versus forged parts on a lot of the FSU gear. I have had to bend a few hinged backs on some Japanese RF's so they would close properly!!!! never on FSU gear... . FSU does suffer from Quality control issues. but a good working CLA'd Kiev 3 or 4 is a joy to use and the same goes for a CLA'd Zorki 3m or 4 too... and a good industar 61l/d and Jupitar 8m are hard to beat for very good image quality for the price! Plus FSU gear will never break the bank like Leicas!!!!!! _Michael
 
Hi guys,

after reading this thread and thinking about similar threads in the past, I can't help noticing that there are some common arguments that keep being made again and again. I'm explicitly not excluding myself, if I think about my own contribution to similar threads in the past. So basically in order to make fun of myself I've made up a little form that can be used to summarise the most common arguments about Russian (Soviet, East German etc.) photo equipment - actually it's a translation of a German form I posted on a different site:

================== snip ==================
rxmd's Communist Camera Discussion Summary Form, English version, v1.0

You are posting about [_] Soviet/[_] Russian/[_] East German photo equipment, in particular about __________.
The content of your post can be summarised as follows:

0. General line of argument

[_] 0.1 You are expressing a positive opinion
[_] 0.2 You are expressing a negative opinion
[_] 0.3 You are expressing a mixed opinion
[_] 0.4 You are not expressing an opinion, or saying something completely different

In particular, you are using the following arguments:

1. Arguments against

[_] 1.1 The camera is [_] unreliable/[_] ugly/[_] erratic/[_] has eaten my dog.
[_] 1.2 The lenses are [_] mediocre/[_] bad/[_] unacceptable.
.... [_] 1.2.1 This has been objectively proven, namely here: [link]
[_] 1.3 In order to take pictures with it, the camera needs to be serviced all the time.
[_] 1.4 Cameras are for taking pictures and not for [_] tinkering around/[_] collecting.
[_] 1.5 It's [_] a copy/[_] a cheap knockoff of the __________.
[_] 1.6 Why not buy [_] the original/[_] an ________ instead - [_] that would get you something solid, [_] especially since analog photo equipment is so cheap nowadays anyway.
[_] 1.7 You get what you pay for.

2. Arguments in favour

[_] 2.1 [_]The/[_]My camera is [_] reliable/[_] beautiful/[_] consistent/[_] gives me a nice feeling when fondling it.
[_] 2.2 The lenses are [_] not bad/[_] good/[_] outstanding.
.... [_] 2.2.1 This has been objectively proven, namely here: [link]
[_] 2.3 It's normal that old cameras have to be serviced now and then, and it's no different with a ______.
[_] 2.4 I like to [_] tinker/[_] collect.
[_] 2.5 You get the same problems with the original.
[_] 2.6 The camera is an [_] equivalent/[_] superior alternative to the ________, [_] moreover since I couldn't afford one on my [_] student/[_] hobbyist budget.
[_] 2.7 You otherwise simply won't get a complete set of equipment for a comparable price.

3. Other common arguments

[_] 3.1 My parent poster is [_] amazing/[_] weird/[_] competent/[_] incompetent/[_] an idiot/[_] ___________.
[_] 3.2 Go take pictures instead!
[_] 3.3 These threads are a bit repetitive.
.... [_] 3.3.1 Let's make a standard form for the most common arguments.

4. Other general characteristics

In addition to this outline of your argument, your post can be characterised as follows:

[_] 4.1 You are [ ] explicitly/[ ] obviously/[_] apparently relying on [_] your own experience/[_] a friend's experience/[_] hearsay/[_] a web site, namely [link].
[_] 4.2 You have attached pictures to your posting, in order to demonstrate the following:
.... [_] This piece of equipment takes great pictures.
.... [_] This piece of equipment takes terrible pictures.
.... [_] There's something wrong with mine.
.... [_] Look at my [_] dog/[_] cat/[_] porch/[_] bookshelf/[_] offspring.
[_] 4.3 The content of your posting isn't new; it has been posted by [_] yourself/[_] _______ in the following location: [link].

================== snip ==================​
 
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RXMD,

LOL......U have 2 much time on ur hands!

I loved my FED-2 but after have two different people on different sides of the Atlantic lay talented hands upon her she still was not whole. I spend more money on my Kievs trying to get them up to snuff than I did on my S2. Now I did have more lenses (didn't really need) and two cameras vs one. I do not mind spending money on getting something fixed as long as it really is fixed and stays fixed. I must have had cameras that were built on Monday mornings (American observation about better quality cars come out of factories on Tuesday through Thursdays).

B2 (;->
 
With 278 posts made, I would have thought the OP could answer his own question!, as it - or something very, very similar, appears with amazing frequency, and each time, the same people jump in with page after page of the same old answers!. By now, we should all have the merits of Jupiters, Industars, etc. etc. etched deep into our minds! :bang:
Dave.
 
Actually, I attached the two images to add a visual to the statement that VinceC made concerning the 1930's Zeiss vs Leitz argument.

The Russian lenses are based on the Zeiss line. They represent a very inexpensive entry into adding a Sonnar formula lens to your Leica camera.
 
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Actually, I attached the two images to add a visual to the statement that VinceC made concerning the 1930's Zeiss vs Leitz argument.

The Russian lenses are based on the Zeiss line. They represent a very inexpensive entry into adding a Sonnar formula lens to your Elica camera.
is your Elica camera screw or bayonet mount?
 
With 278 posts made, I would have thought the OP could answer his own question!, as it - or something very, very similar, appears with amazing frequency, and each time, the same people jump in with page after page of the same old answers!. By now, we should all have the merits of Jupiters, Industars, etc. etc. etched deep into our minds! :bang:
Dave.

I just wanted to know if it was more the mechanics or the actually lens itself that was nice about them.
 
As Brian Sweeney said, the fact remains that good samples of the Russian lenses are excellent lenses that also are very affordable.

>>is your Elica camera screw or bayonet mount?<<

Mr. Sweeney's contributions here have been immeasurable to Forum members' knowledge of Russian lenses, Leica lenses, Contax, Nikon, Canon and other lenses, in screw, bayonet, Contax and S-mount. A good number of us have lenses he has personally fixed, shimmed, revived or modified, then given away for no cost, in both bayonet, screw and other mounts.
 
Just made a shot with my beloved and very cheap Industar L/D 61:

Kopie%20van%20violen.jpg
 
As Brian Sweeney said, the fact remains that good samples of the Russian lenses are excellent lenses that also are very affordable.

>>is your Elica camera screw or bayonet mount?<<

Mr. Sweeney's contributions here have been immeasurable to Forum members' knowledge of Russian lenses, Leica lenses, Contax, Nikon, Canon and other lenses, in screw, bayonet, Contax and S-mount. A good number of us have lenses he has personally fixed, shimmed, revived or modified, then given away for no cost, in both bayonet, screw and other mounts.

I fully agree with you, Vince.

However, if Brian would charge what he is worth per hour, the price of a lens overhauled by him wouldn't be so different from say a comparable used Nikkor, Canon or Leica RF lens.

If you like Jupiter/Industar signatures, or like the handling of Russian RFs, etc., all the better for you. We have some really great photographers on the forum using Russian glass successfully, all the time (ZorkiKat comes to mind).

I'm just opposing the frequent statement that they are so much more affordable than comparable Japanese or other lenses/cameras. They are not, if you fairly account for numerous ebay trips, necessary returns, hours of personal tinkering, or getting somebody like Brian involved in fixing a lens or camera.

As an example to my previous statement, my last OM-2 cost me US 70, with an additional US 20 for a 50/1.8. For me personally, that combo just feels better, and seems to give more "bang for the buck" than Fed/Zorki with J8. But again, that's just me.

Cheers,

Roland.
 
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An early '70s Kiev was my introduction into the RF world. It cost me about $100, and that's why I bought it. The Jupiter-8 on it was the worst Jupiter I've ever used ... it wasn't until I bought a '57 Jupiter that I found out how good these lenses could be. But even then, the sketchy coatings are problematic. I do a lot of shooting into backlight.

The compatibility eased me into the Nikon RF world. I hunted through lots of photo shows looking for a cheap Leica copy Soviet camera that was fun to use, but none seemed worth the bother. Instead, I found Nikon S2 and S3 cameras that were light years ahead of the Kievs.
 
Just to set the record straight, I am a computer engineer with 30 years of experience. It pays very well.

I've posted a lot of threads on DIY repairs on Russian lenses, converting Contax lenses to Leica mount, and repairing Zeiss LTM lenses.

If Dave wants to be utterly petty about a typo, well- the forum is full of them, right?

And four of my Leica's are M-Mount, five are screw mount. Eleven of the Leica lenses are screw mount, ten are bayonet mount. The Zeiss LTM lenses get more use.
 
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Just to set the record straight, I am a computer engineer with 30 years of experience. It pays very well.

I've posted a lot of threads on DIY repairs on Russian lenses, converting Contax lenses to Leica mount, and repairing Zeiss LTM lenses.

If Dave wants to be utterly petty about a typo, well- the forum is full of them, right?

And four of my Leica's are M-Mount, five are screw mount. Ten of the Leica lenses are screw mount, the other ten are bayonet mount. The Zeiss LTM lenses get more use.
Interesting, but I for one was not enquiring about your career and salary situation, or camera collection, or indeed your valuable contribution to the forum. I think, that quite often the wrong conclusion is reached, when someone ( like me! ) takes a humourous approach to threads that often become repetitive to the point of tedium,-and yes-I know I don't HAVE to keep reading them, but live in hope that a decline in content quality on the forum of late, might be reversed.
Regards, Dave.
 
So you prefer being petty about typo's.

That really improves the forum's content.

I post information about DIY repairs and getting the most from less expensive lenses as I'm tired of seeing the RFF hype driving some lenses out of sight. Like the Canon 50/1.5. I am not doing it to get business as some have accused me of.
 
Heck, we all make typos.
Brian Sweeney is a most respected member here on RFF, I am very glad he is back on our forum.
His wealth of knowledge and his hands on experience are given generously to our members free of charge.
He just makes this place so much better.
 
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