Just how uncommon is horizontal-pattern sharkskin?

[02Pilot]

I recently got a IIIc that has the horizontal-oriented sharkskin body covering. I've tried to research it, but the information seems fragmented, especially in English (and my German is arguably worse than Google Translate's). I've figured out that it seems to have been made in 1949 and 1950 only, and used only within a specific serial number range (which may camera falls into), but that's about it. Is there any solid info on numbers produced and rarity (inferred or actual)?

 

[02Pilot]

Anyone? I know the general subject has been discussed here in the past.

 

[Luddite Frank]

I'll have to dig-out my III-c and have a look...

 

[lawnpotter]

Interesting. I just checked my 49 IIIc sharkskin and it is vertical.

 

[02Pilot]

Probably should have posted this initially, but from seeing several mentions in earlier threads I guess I thought it was more common knowledge here than it is. There are a couple short articles here, but Google Translate does a fairly miserable job with the technical language: http://nattenber1.wix.com/publikationen#!leica/cjg9

Looking at the charts in the later article, I can't figure out if the author is indicating that the horizontal pattern was used consistently throughout those serial number blocks, or if it was just scattered through them (the latter seems more likely). If I'm understanding it correctly, the other chart shows serial numbers of cameras with the horizontal pattern, which suggests a fairly high degree of scarcity, but I also don't know how large the sample size was.

 

[Vince Lupo]

I had one like that (#476522, a IIIc/IIIf ST conversion), but I don't know that it adds particular value to the camera (at least it didn't to mine).

 

[02Pilot]

Don't know about value, but I will say that the sharkskin is way grippier than the standard vulcanite on my other IIIc. I'm really more interested for personal curiosity than anything else.

 

[lawnpotter]

Don't know about value, but I will say that the sharkskin is way grippier than the standard vulcanite on my other IIIc. I'm really more interested for personal curiosity than anything else.

I agree. I love the sharkskin

 

[Luddite Frank]

I dug-out my IIIc > f BD/ST conversion (like Vince's), s/n 4439xx.

It too has the "horizontal" sharkskin.

I will add that I purchased my IIIc>f from a camera/photo dealer in Copenhagen, near Nyhavn, in fall of '14.


I will add a photo or two, but won't get to it for a few days.

 

[02Pilot]

Thanks for the feedback, folks. It would be interesting to hear from others with sharkskin IIIcs whether theirs have the horizontal or vertical pattern. Perhaps a poll is in order....

 

[Jerevan]

Don't know about value, but I will say that the sharkskin is way grippier than the standard vulcanite on my other IIIc.

Yes, that was one thing I noticed immediately when picking up my IIIc the first time. I have the horizontal variation on mine.

Olaf Nattenberg is still working on this, as far as I know - I was in contact with him a little while ago.

 

[Filzkoeter]

The articles says that he identified 18 cameras with the horizontal sharkskin pattern (the M3 prototype has it too), most of them IIIc, 2 IIc and 1 Ic. It seems that the horizontal pattern was only used in cameras that were built in '48 and '49 and that only few got it (the author states it could be possible that one out of 10-15 Leicas from 48/49 were delivered with a horizontal pattern).
He suspects that left over pieces from the sharkskin sheets (after those were cut for the vertical-sharkskinned Leicas) were used for those cameras (most of the pieces were propably used for binoculars and lenses).

 

[Luddite Frank]

The articles says that he identified 18 cameras with the horizontal sharkskin pattern (the M3 prototype has it too), most of them IIIc, 2 IIc and 1 Ic. It seems that the horizontal pattern was only used in cameras that were built in '48 and '49 and that only few got it (the author states it could be possible that one out of 10-15 Leicas from 48/49 were delivered with a horizontal pattern).
He suspects that left over pieces from the sharkskin sheets (after those were cut for the vertical-sharkskinned Leicas) were used for those cameras (most of the pieces were propably used for binoculars and lenses).

I would question whether the "body count" is so low (18), if the original poster, Vince Lupo, and myself all have examples... granted that's a tiny sampling, but for 1/6th of the "known examples" to turn-up here at RFF, within three days seems somewhat unlikely ?

I think a poll might be useful...

 

[02Pilot]

If the author of those articles is correct in his supposition that one of every 10-15 cameras in that serial number range has the horizontal orientation, that's roughly 7-10% of what appears to be around 10,000 cameras (just looking at the serial numbers of the most common IIIc, adding some for the IIc and Ic), or 700 to 1,000 total.

I will put up a poll shortly.

 

[Jerevan]

I would question whether the "body count" is so low (18), if the original poster, Vince Lupo, and myself all have examples... granted that's a tiny sampling, but for 1/6th of the "known examples" to turn-up here at RFF, within three days seems somewhat unlikely ?

The articles were written quite a few years ago for a publication that has limited circulation - I guess that is why.