mani
Well-known
I often read a lot of posts by concerned owners or potential owners of discontinued cameras, worrying about certain parts that are no longer available and which if broken would make their valuable and useful tool a worthless paperweight. A good example are the winding gears in the Mamiya 6.
I'm wondering about the practicality of an RFF Kickstarter project to finance a 3D printer that could produce parts like this? One concern would be whether it's best to wait until metal 3D printers are affordable, as some camera parts will probably need to be made in metal - or whether very hard plastics would be enough?
The project would really need an expert to produce the parts, and also good examples or technical drawings of the obsolete parts - so the 3D printer itself is just the first step. But it could have a wide range of applications.
In addition to the Mamiya example, I can also think of scanners (such as the Nikon Coolscan9000) that might benefit from this service in the future.
What do you think - and which other parts would you like to see produced?
I'm wondering about the practicality of an RFF Kickstarter project to finance a 3D printer that could produce parts like this? One concern would be whether it's best to wait until metal 3D printers are affordable, as some camera parts will probably need to be made in metal - or whether very hard plastics would be enough?
The project would really need an expert to produce the parts, and also good examples or technical drawings of the obsolete parts - so the 3D printer itself is just the first step. But it could have a wide range of applications.
In addition to the Mamiya example, I can also think of scanners (such as the Nikon Coolscan9000) that might benefit from this service in the future.
What do you think - and which other parts would you like to see produced?
dfatty
Well-known
Interesting idea - I just had a TLR returned as unrepairable because of a single unavailable part. I don't know enough about camera repair (will plastic work) or 3D printers (what kind of expert will we need) to know if this is feasible, but it sounds like it could be a good idea for a group of people with old cameras that are hard to find parts for.
v_roma
Well-known
That is an interesting thought. In fact, why not make a whole camera 
BLKRCAT
75% Film
3d printed parts can be durable. There is a video done by Vice that i saw last week where there is a guy in texas 3d printing guns. Just the lower receiver and magazines for now. They have had success getting it to work but havent been able to match plain old metal i dont think.
The problem I think with 3d printing is that 3d printers are based off of layers. Usually these layers if printed at a lower resolution can cause the edges of the 3d printed object to have ripples and not be perfectly flat. Between these layers is also going to be a point of failure since each layer is just melted plastic on top of one another. If one layer doesnt melt just right or doesnt stick well to the layer below it the part will fail.
Im sure it is possible to overcome this, Ive seen some printed objects from a makerbot that looked flawless. But time and money have to be invested to make sure that the printer is working properly.
I have a friend who made his own CNC machine. Its not much more different than building a 3d printer. Just a matter of building it solid and calibration.
The problem I think with 3d printing is that 3d printers are based off of layers. Usually these layers if printed at a lower resolution can cause the edges of the 3d printed object to have ripples and not be perfectly flat. Between these layers is also going to be a point of failure since each layer is just melted plastic on top of one another. If one layer doesnt melt just right or doesnt stick well to the layer below it the part will fail.
Im sure it is possible to overcome this, Ive seen some printed objects from a makerbot that looked flawless. But time and money have to be invested to make sure that the printer is working properly.
I have a friend who made his own CNC machine. Its not much more different than building a 3d printer. Just a matter of building it solid and calibration.
Dralowid
Michael
there has already been a good thread about 3D printed/produced lens hoods...can't find it right now.
kuzano
Veteran
Alfa Romeo Rear View Mirror
Alfa Romeo Rear View Mirror
Just read an article on a fellow who is restoring an Alfa Romeo Speciale Sprint. Had a very bad and broken/pitted rear view mirror mount that mounts on the windshield frame, and the mirror is mounted to an arm that drops down.
3D printed the item. Solution worked.
Alfa Romeo Rear View Mirror
Just read an article on a fellow who is restoring an Alfa Romeo Speciale Sprint. Had a very bad and broken/pitted rear view mirror mount that mounts on the windshield frame, and the mirror is mounted to an arm that drops down.
3D printed the item. Solution worked.
Mackinaw
Think Different
An interesting idea. I know that several automakers, Ford in particular, are using 3D printers to produce prototype car/truck parts. No reason that a 3D printer couldn't also produce durable camera parts.
Jim B.
Jim B.
Joakim Målare
Established
Not that I have any professional experience in the area, but I can imagine 3d printing is best suitable for pieces that are originally plastic, such as covers and snapping pieces. The detail, tolerances and durability needed for fine mechanical parts like gears and levers are better milled, lathed or otherwise cut.
That said, there are very versatile CNC machines for producing pieces in both plastic and metal materials in the sizes and numbers suitable for camera repair and add-ons. Best would be a combination of 3d printing and milling, of course. It's not a huge amount of money involved, but more than any normal income guy can handle on his/her own.
I have a good amount of knowledge in digital modeling, both technical CAD and free-form sculpture. Looking forward to experimenting with a semi-large milling machine currently under construction by my father, designed for wood but capable of milling aluminium. I also work with milling at a stone masonry. Stone gears, anyone? ;-)
Jokes aside, I'd be happy to contribute if any project should take off. I have actually had the idea myself of doing some custom camera combos and mods, making use of 3d modeling and cnc milling...
/ Joakim
That said, there are very versatile CNC machines for producing pieces in both plastic and metal materials in the sizes and numbers suitable for camera repair and add-ons. Best would be a combination of 3d printing and milling, of course. It's not a huge amount of money involved, but more than any normal income guy can handle on his/her own.
I have a good amount of knowledge in digital modeling, both technical CAD and free-form sculpture. Looking forward to experimenting with a semi-large milling machine currently under construction by my father, designed for wood but capable of milling aluminium. I also work with milling at a stone masonry. Stone gears, anyone? ;-)
Jokes aside, I'd be happy to contribute if any project should take off. I have actually had the idea myself of doing some custom camera combos and mods, making use of 3d modeling and cnc milling...
/ Joakim
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
Owning a 3d printer for this purpose is pointless while there are affordable services around like shapeways and ponoko.
I have used Shapeways quite a bit myself for various camera projects. There is a lot of potential there, but also some limitations. Firstly the best reason not to own a machine is that there are many different materials available, that are suited to different needs, that each require a different machine. Shapeways does the hard work fine tuning the technology so you don't have to.
I have succesfully printed plastic gears which work well, although I am not sure how durable they are in heavy duty use. In plastic you can get quite fine detail, but the more detailed plastics are also the less strong ones. For the tougher plastics the detail is just not as fine as moulded or milled parts like you would find in a camera. The metal parts are very strong, but it is just not (yet) possible to get the very fine detail needed. Also aesthetically the fine parts are not quite there yet.
At the current state of technology, it is ideally suited to replacing, or customizing larger, less critical parts. I have a linhof Technika 70, which has some plastic parts which are notoriously brittle. Some of these I intend to eventually replace, but there are some parts that I just can't make yet.
Another member has been using the shapeways service to make custom lens hoods, so I'll reiterate, there is real potential here.
I have used Shapeways quite a bit myself for various camera projects. There is a lot of potential there, but also some limitations. Firstly the best reason not to own a machine is that there are many different materials available, that are suited to different needs, that each require a different machine. Shapeways does the hard work fine tuning the technology so you don't have to.
I have succesfully printed plastic gears which work well, although I am not sure how durable they are in heavy duty use. In plastic you can get quite fine detail, but the more detailed plastics are also the less strong ones. For the tougher plastics the detail is just not as fine as moulded or milled parts like you would find in a camera. The metal parts are very strong, but it is just not (yet) possible to get the very fine detail needed. Also aesthetically the fine parts are not quite there yet.
At the current state of technology, it is ideally suited to replacing, or customizing larger, less critical parts. I have a linhof Technika 70, which has some plastic parts which are notoriously brittle. Some of these I intend to eventually replace, but there are some parts that I just can't make yet.
Another member has been using the shapeways service to make custom lens hoods, so I'll reiterate, there is real potential here.
alienmeatsack
Well-known
I would also suggest using Shapeways or Ponoko for this kind of thing.
I have been recently modeling some parts for some of my cameras to have done on Shapeways myself... Including a 35mm film winder lever, a lens hood, 35mm adapter and mask for one of my medium format cameras, and a few other things I have on the list.
Until someone cracks down on the "replicating parts" thing from old cameras or anything else that needs a replacement part, I think this is the way to go as long as you pick your material wisely for the part needed. It's quite affordable if you do it right as well.
I have been recently modeling some parts for some of my cameras to have done on Shapeways myself... Including a 35mm film winder lever, a lens hood, 35mm adapter and mask for one of my medium format cameras, and a few other things I have on the list.
Until someone cracks down on the "replicating parts" thing from old cameras or anything else that needs a replacement part, I think this is the way to go as long as you pick your material wisely for the part needed. It's quite affordable if you do it right as well.
gooseta
Established
Make the body based on a design voted for by forum members, and take any rangefinder and transplant the parts in : sell them for $10,000 a pop!That is an interesting thought. In fact, why not make a whole camera
mani
Well-known
Great input by everyone - glad to see that some people like the idea!
One observation: the reason I didn't think it was a good idea to go with services like Shapeways or Ponoko is because I saw these spare parts as being somehow 'standardized' as legitimate replacements, with an expectation that they were best-possible quality and designed and tested to have a good 'life-expectancy'.
That way, anyone who fixes Mamiya 6s (for instance) could order 25 or 50 gears and get all the same, standard and tested parts - and anyone else ordering parts would also be able to get them with confidence that the spares were correctly dimensioned and constructed, and so on.
The idea is simply to put an end to the uncertainty around old or discontinued equipment - making ad hoc parts on a personal basis doesn't really do that. It also has the side-effect of increasing the value of used mechanical cameras: people no longer need to worry about stripped gears or some stupid other little part somewhere ruining their $1k purchase after a week, because they'll know there are 2000 gears available!
Anyway, this will be moot when everyone owns their own 3D printer in five year's time!
One observation: the reason I didn't think it was a good idea to go with services like Shapeways or Ponoko is because I saw these spare parts as being somehow 'standardized' as legitimate replacements, with an expectation that they were best-possible quality and designed and tested to have a good 'life-expectancy'.
That way, anyone who fixes Mamiya 6s (for instance) could order 25 or 50 gears and get all the same, standard and tested parts - and anyone else ordering parts would also be able to get them with confidence that the spares were correctly dimensioned and constructed, and so on.
The idea is simply to put an end to the uncertainty around old or discontinued equipment - making ad hoc parts on a personal basis doesn't really do that. It also has the side-effect of increasing the value of used mechanical cameras: people no longer need to worry about stripped gears or some stupid other little part somewhere ruining their $1k purchase after a week, because they'll know there are 2000 gears available!
Anyway, this will be moot when everyone owns their own 3D printer in five year's time!