Kiev 4 Film advancing and shutter questions

[V3nzy]

Hi everybody here, i am very new to film photography. Received my Kiev 4 recently. Did research about it for a few days, and i found something strange, i don't know if it's normal or not. Hope you guys can help me out here. After advancing the film, when choosing shutter speed, the take up spool is moving as well, is it normal? Because if the take up spool is moving forward as well when i choose shutter speed, won't that advance the film further more where it shouldn't? That doesn't make sense to me haha, i haven't try this out with film in it yet, so hope you guys can help me out. Thanks ! 😉

 

[nhchen]

Hi, I just checked with a kiev II and contax II, in both cases the thing holding the take up spool doesn't move after I wind the shutter, even if I change the shutter speeds after winding.
Are the film advance sprockets also moving when you change the speeds? Because it's those that actually help advancing the film and not the take up spool. It's likely that some gears have gummed up inside. You could take a look inside the camera if you are adventurous enough, just follow the guides in the kiev survival site.
But back to your question, I don't know if your problem will affect the winding, why not put a roll of film you don't mind wasting in the camera with its back off to see if the advance is working properly?

Regards,
Nathan

 

[V3nzy]

Hi, I just checked with a kiev II and contax II, in both cases the thing holding the take up spool doesn't move after I wind the shutter, even if I change the shutter speeds after winding.
Are the film advance sprockets also moving when you change the speeds? Because it's those that actually help advancing the film and not the take up spool. It's likely that some gears have gummed up inside. You could take a look inside the camera if you are adventurous enough, just follow the guides in the kiev survival site.
But back to your question, I don't know if your problem will affect the winding, why not put a roll of film you don't mind wasting in the camera with its back off to see if the advance is working properly?

Regards,
Nathan

Yup, the film advancing sprockets are also moving. I took everything aparts yesterday follow the kiev survival site's guide, but i wasn't sure. So i guess i will be taking it apart again today, to see if any gears bump into each other, thanks ! 🙂

 

[nhchen]

Hi, if that's the case, I think it'll probably be a problem with the winding mechanism( the part of the shutter under the speed selector. Maybe check that part while winding it, a latch is not catching somewhere in the mechanism. If you can find the maizenberg camera repair book, it is very useful (there's an English translation somewhere on the web)
Regards,
Nathan

 

[V3nzy]

Hi, if that's the case, I think it'll probably be a problem with the winding mechanism( the part of the shutter under the speed selector. Maybe check that part while winding it, a latch is not catching somewhere in the mechanism. If you can find the maizenberg camera repair book, it is very useful (there's an English translation somewhere on the web)
Regards,
Nathan

Thanks for suggestion, i open up, and i think i knw what's the problem, but i don't know what i am missing here that keep the winding mechanism stop moving when winding the shutter speed. Is there anyone here kind enough to let me see the interior of your kiev-4? So that i can make a comparison and know what i am looking for

 

[nhchen]

Thanks for suggestion, i open up, and i think i knw what's the problem, but i don't know what i am missing here that keep the winding mechanism stop moving when winding the shutter speed. Is there anyone here kind enough to let me see the interior of your kiev-4? So that i can make a comparison and know what i am looking for

if you'd like I can email you the maizenberg repair guide in english, I can't seem to find any working link for it at the moment. It has a pretty extensive description and drawings of how the whole mechanism works. Just send me a PM with your email address.
nathan

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31085243/maizenberg-cameras1.pdf

 

[V3nzy]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31085243/maizenberg-cameras1.pdf

Wow thanks a lot! That's a treasure, couldn't find it anywhere on the internet. I will try and read through it, thanks again !

 

[V3nzy]

This is so weird, i still couldn't find anything wrong with it. Everything seem to be working fine, all the gears and latch are in place where it should be. I have spend too much time on this lol

 

[oftheherd]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31085243/maizenberg-cameras1.pdf

Another thanks! I need that for both my Kiev (lower and upper shutters don't always latch to each other), and my Contax II which has broken tapes. I now feel more confident about fixing them.

 

[oftheherd]

This is so weird, i still couldn't find anything wrong with it. Everything seem to be working fine, all the gears and latch are in place where it should be. I have spend too much time on this lol

I understand your frustration. But I suspect you will feel great satisfaction once you figure it out

 

[V3nzy]

I understand your frustration. But I suspect you will feel great satisfaction once you figure it out

Just hope that there is someone here willing to share me his kiev-4 interior picture, so that i can make a comparison. Or else i will never find out what's wrong haha

 

[oftheherd]

Just hope that there is someone here willing to share me his kiev-4 interior picture, so that i can make a comparison. Or else i will never find out what's wrong haha

If I get around to working on the shutter of my 4AM, I will be happy to do so. But with my schedule, keep hoping for someone else.

 

[Grytpype]

V3nzy, when you've cocked the shutter, can you turn the sprocket spindle by hand? You shouldn't be able to. If you can, check that that the rewind release (the pin concentric with the sprocket spindle, visible from below) can move up and down OK. If you push on it it should move up against a spring, and back as soon as you release it.

I'm wondering if the release is stuck upward, freeing the sprocket spindle to turn, and gummy grease is allowing the gearing to move it.

 

[V3nzy]

V3nzy, when you've cocked the shutter, can you turn the sprocket spindle by hand? You shouldn't be able to. If you can, check that that the rewind release (the pin concentric with the sprocket spindle, visible from below) can move up and down OK. If you push on it it should move up against a spring, and back as soon as you release it.

I'm wondering if the release is stuck upward, freeing the sprocket spindle to turn, and gummy grease is allowing the gearing to move it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I checked, and everthing works well. Will open it open later tonight and see more thoroughly.

 

[Grytpype]

Sorry that idea didn't work out. I took lots of pictures when I dismantled my first Kiev, but I'm trying to think which ones you would need. I'm usually too lazy to work out how things actually work: I just reassemble exactly as it was and hope it works!

Here are a couple of pictures from a 1974 4A. The brass disc you can just see in the first picture is the one with slots in it that select the speed. It turns with the wind/cocking knob as you cock the shutter, and drives the film transport (sprocket-spindle and take-up spool) via a gear on its underside and the train of rusty gears you can see. With the shutter cocked, it will be held in position by the blackened latch behind it and the plated latch in front (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

The second picture shows the parts in the cocked position, I think (but with the spring detached on the rear latch). Do both these latches engage and lock the brass disc on your camera?​

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