Kiev 4 vs FED-2

ChrisCummins

ChrisCummins

Couch Photographer.
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Hi, I'm looking to expand my RF collection (aren't we all :angel: ) and am wondering whether a kiev 4 is more suitable for me or if I should look to get some more lenses for my FED-2. I must say I think I prefer the styling of the kiev 4/4A over the FED-2, although I'm a little confused as to the focusing mechanism. I can see there is a focus gear mounted on the camera body, does that dispense of a focus wheel on the lens itself? In which case, does that mean there are no DOF/distance markings on the lens itself?

I will use the camera mainly for candid/street photography. I know this is a subjective question, and please be as subjective as possible. :)

Thanks
Chris
 
The Kiev is a good looking camera that does have idiosyncrasies. There is a depth of field scale and the focussing wheel includes the infinity lock so this must be pressed, you can rotate the lens after unlocking. The rangefinder window is easily obscured by your finger so there is a characteristic way of holding the camera which I find awkward. The availability of lenses other than 50 mm is not as good as the LTM.

If you get a Kiev you will have a new experience, which can only enhance the enjoyment of your hobby. Go for it.
 
As greyelm already explained, once you release the thumbwheel infinity lock then you're free to use the lens to focus with, including via the depth of field scale on the lens. And for what it's worth, the lenses for a Kiev are relatively cheap and very good. Personally, I never had any issue with how you have to hold one to avoid the framelines window. and it's got about the longest baselength going which makes it easier to focus accurately. So yeah, I say pick up a Kiev and give it a try.
 
I've never bought a Kiev 4 that really worked right. The finder is really squinty. But mostly, and its the same gripe I have with the Contax, that damn infinity lock drives me crazy! The Fed 2 is my favorite FSU, though.

I would never buy another Kiev 4 that I couldn't personally examine and shoot with before buying it.
 
ChrisCummins said:
Hi, I'm looking to expand my RF collection (aren't we all :angel: ) and am wondering whether a kiev 4 is more suitable for me or if I should look to get some more lenses for my FED-2. I must say I think I prefer the styling of the kiev 4/4A over the FED-2, although I'm a little confused as to the focusing mechanism. I can see there is a focus gear mounted on the camera body, does that dispense of a focus wheel on the lens itself? In which case, does that mean there are no DOF/distance markings on the lens itself?
Click to expand...

In general, the Kiev inherits from its Contax predecessor the in-body focusing mechanism for 50mm lenses. These lenses use the built-in focusing helical. Lenses of other focal lengths come with their own helicals and just transfer their movement to the in-body helical for rangefinder operation. While it's technically possible to focus some of these lenses with the in-body focusing gear, it's generally not recommended because of the significant forces involved.

On 50mm lenses there are no DOF/distance markings; these are on the body. Other focal length lenses come with their own markings.

Operating a Kiev is a bit quirky, and some people like it, others don't. You need to hold it in a special way so as not to obstruct the rangefinder window, and there's not much of a big lens selection. If you're fine with that, a Kiev and a Jupiter-12 (for 35mm, with external finder) or a Helios-103 is a nice combination. It's not that expensive either, just try it out and sell it on if it's not for you.
 
Pickett Wilson said:
I've never bought a Kiev 4 that really worked right. The finder is really squinty. But mostly, and its the same gripe I have with the Contax, that damn infinity lock drives me crazy! The Fed 2 is my favorite FSU, though.

I would never buy another Kiev 4 that I couldn't personally examine and shoot with before buying it.
Click to expand...

This has been debated previously. I've had just the opposite experience. I've purchased two Kiev 4 cameras and they both worked without a problem. The first I bought from a Ukraine based ebay seller and the second I bought from a fellow RFF member. And as for the squinty finder, well, by comparison to a Leica M, I find even the Leica LTM cameras a bit squinty.
 
Kiev lenses are really good and can be easier to find than M39 lenses for FED-2. Now when Christmas is coming and everyone deserves a nice present or two I'd consider buying both of them ;)
 
rxmd said:
While it's technically possible to focus some of these lenses with the in-body focusing gear, it's generally not recommended because of the significant forces involved.
Click to expand...

At least some Contax and Kiev manuals and books allow using the finger wheel for wides. But it is not really practical given its long throw.
 
Some good advice above. Personally I find the Kiev awkward to hold but I do like using mine, it has too many good points to ignore it. It's a different experience from a FED, you'll probably love it or hate it. Lens choice is more limited but the Jupiter and Helios lenses that are available are pretty good lenses if they cover enough range for you.

If the infinity lock gets on your nerves, there are simple ways to disable it and it only operates for 50mm lenses anyway. Don't use the wheel for non-50mm lenses, it puts too much strain on the internal gear mechanism and it's far too slow anyway.
 
sevo said:
At least some Contax and Kiev manuals and books allow using the finger wheel for wides. But it is not really practical given its long throw.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know they do. I guess it has to do with the inclination of the secondary focusing helical, which is lower with wides so that you need less force. In practice I found it didn't really work already with my particular J-12/Kiev combination. I guess it might work better if you have a particularly well-lubricated lens.

However, it's a bit of an awkward situation anway. The finger wheel allows for rather fine focusing, but for the long lenses where you need it, you can't use it because it might break the mechanism. Whereas you can use it with wides, with which, however, you don't need to focus as precisely to begin with.
 
Hi,
thanks for all the responses. I've heard about the special 'contax grip' and it does look a little unatural, but since I'm relatively new to rangefinders, I think I could perhaps get used to it.

Interesting what you say about the availability of lenses. While I have seen more LTM glass going around, the Kiev optics generally seem to be cheaper (smaller demand?) and they all seem up to scratch. I'm particularly interested in the Helios-103, which I've heard is quite something! That with a J-12 and J-9 would cover every need I have at the moment. The J-9 sounds very interesting as I have been spoilt abit by my Canon A1 with 50mm/1.4 lens combination, which I think is just unbelievable for portraiture. The I-61 on my FED-2 can't compete because of the close focus being 1mtr as opposed to the 0.45m on the canon, so I can't get as up close as I'm used to:

101023b20ai.jpg


Maybe a J-9 would give a similar result?

Regards
Chris
 
I'm in the middle on the Kievs... specifically, two for four.

But the two I've got that work, work well and are both great cameras.
The older the better seems to be the guide for quality.

The serial numbers give you the year of manufacture (the first two digits).
Smooth, quiet and solid... what more could you ask?
.
 
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Thanks Rick - how old is old? I'm looking at one with '72 serial number

Also, two further quick questions:

- How's repair work on the K4? I've thoroughly enjoyed giving the FED-2 full strip downs and doing repair work on it, but I've noticed distinctly less info online about the Kiev.
- just to clarify (i'm feeling abit dense today - not enough coffee eh?), the in-camera focus mechanism can be locked and over-ridden on any lens? I'm sure I remember seeing a J-12 without distance markings on it, or I may have just been a bit inatentive and not seen them...
 
I own a Kiev 4am and a Fed 2g. I use both rotating back and forth and like both equally. As far as the Contax grip goes, I have gotten so used to it that I automatically hold the Fed that way now. It just seems natural. There is a wider selection of Fed lens than Kiev lens. But don't forget, you can use Zeiss Contax lens on the Kiev and I use Nikon wide angle lens on mine as well. I will suggest that you buy from someone like Yuri at Fedka.com. The initial price may seem high but by the time you pay for shipping from FSU and then more than likely lay out another $80 or more for a CLA you will come out ahead and will have a good camera from the beginning rather than playing Russian Roulette.
John
 
jwnash1 said:
I own a Kiev 4am and a Fed 2g. I use both rotating back and forth and like both equally. As far as the Contax grip goes, I have gotten so used to it that I automatically hold the Fed that way now. It just seems natural.
Click to expand...

I am hoping that I can develop that same routine too - although isn't the focus ring the opposite way round on Kiev/FEDs? It always confuses me for a minute when swapping from canon/nikon due to the opposite focus mechanisms.
 
I have three, one of which has an intractable light leak. The other two are really fantastic cameras. They don't have the same shutter fade problem that most of my FEDs and Zorkiis have and I find that I can hand-hold down to 1/25 and still get sharp pictures. The only reason that I don't use mine more is that they are too big to slip into my pocket like a Zorkii 1.
 
I clearly prefer the Helios lens to the Jupiter; Helios seems much sharper, but it might just be my reading glasses in need of some cleaning ;)

I have bought several cameras CLA'ed from hero4g on the bay - never had any problems with any of them (FEDs or KIEVs).
 
I am a fairly new owner of both a FED-2 (1963) and a Kiev 4A (1961). They are both good cameras, though the FED-2 takes the honors for handling, sturdiness, and film loading. The Kiev grows on you though. It is better finished overall and not that much larger. It is also much quieter with larger wheels for film wind/rewind. Lenses for the Kiev are also much less expensive than for the FSU LTM counterparts.

Answer: Buy both!

More seriously though, avoid the Kiev 4M/4AM and maybe even the later 4/4A (without the bump by the lens mount). Quality control and build really went downhill on the later cameras. With Kiev, older is often better. I had to send my first one (1984) back, but am very happy with my 1961 model.

In case you are interested: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=fsu&w=28796087%40N02



Steve
 
I don't know what it is but the H-104 is so much better than the J-8. It's not your glasses! Brian Sweeney has even gone to the considerable trouble to make an LSM Helios-103 he was so enamored of it.

I wish we all had the skill to emulate.
 
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