Kiev 4 vs Zorki 4?

[AGX2015]

Hi,

this is the first time that I write here, and i want to ask a question about this old camera.

The Kiev 4 has a very interesting story behind but what model do you suggest to buy?

The Zorki 4 i read that is more reliable, have a better viewfinder and is a copy of the Leica.

But what model do you suggest and it's better kiev 4 or zorki 4?

Thanks!

 

[Roger Hicks]

I've had several of both and I'd back the Zorkii without hesitation. Personally I'd go for a Zorkii 4K (lever wind version of the 4) which is a LONG way from a Leica.

A lot depends, of course, on condition: a good Kiev is a better camera than a rough Zorkii.

Cheers,

R.

 

[ForestCap]

You can find most of the specs. of those two cameras online so I'll just write something that is not always included in the specs.

Zorki-4 has a brighter finder with higher magnification, but the eye-relief is very short. It's not usable if you shoot with eye-glass on. That's the main reason why my Z-4 sits on the shelf. It does have a diopter adjustment but it changes the field of view a lot.

Kiev-4a (the model I suggest) has a darker finder with lower magnification, but the RF patch is big and it looks brighter, I find it easier to focus the Kiev than Z-4. You should be able to see the edges of the frame in the viewfinder even with eye-glass on.

Excluding protruding parts, Z-4 is slightly larger by all three dimensions than a Kiev-4a.

Both cameras are solidly built but I find Kiev's finish a little better. Well, this is just subjective.

What about a Zorki-6?🙂

 

[AGX2015]

Thanks very much!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Better would be one which will came after fresh and real CLA.
Zorki 4 is ugly camera with same shutter mechanism design as in first Leicas.
Kiev is closer copy to Contax.

 

[Lucadomi]

I had a Kiev 4 and a Zorki 4K for very short time. To me the Zorki felt quite crude. The benefit was the vieviewrinder. The Kiev was better built and felt more like a classic, however I prefer the fixed spool for loading.

 

[newspaperguy]

While I regularly use a Zorki (a 1d), my favorite FSU camera is my Kiev II.

 

[AGX2015]

But what do you suggest to buy?

Kiev 4, 4A, 4M or 4AM?

I found some 4AM and 4A at 60 EUR with real CLA and in minty condition... what do you suggest?

 

[jbielikowski]

The oldest you can find, mid 50's is where the quality started to drop, a Kiev II from 40's is what you want. Then find right technician and spend 3 times of the camera price on full overhaul... and you can buy Contax IIa instead.

 

[Tim Murphy]

Dear AGX,

I own both a Zorki 4 and a Kiev 4A. Like some of the others have said the Kiev feels like a more solid and substantial camera. Both of mine came from the former USSR via ebay and I received solid useable versions of each camera so I would not be afraid to buy another one sight unseen from an ebay seller that has solid positive feedback.

One downside to my Zorki 4 is that the shutter speeds appear to be painted on the dial and the paint is getting somewhat worn. The Kiev shutter speed dial is engraved so the numbers are much more visible to me.

I do find that the Zorki is much easier to focus. I wear eyeglasses and the diopter adjustment is a big benefit for me. I will tell you that you will probably do better with a Kiev that does not have a light meter as it is highly unlikely that the meter is still accurate.

If you want to use lenses other than the standard 50mm lens I have found there are far more Leica screw mount lenses available than there are Contax bayonet style lenses. You can use screw mount lenses from Canon, Nikon, and Leica along with the Russian made copies. That might be something to consider.

Good luck with your purchase!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[bobby_novatron]

I have a Kiev 2a and Kiev 4a. The Kiev 2a is better-made and smoother.

I also have a Zorki-4. The Zorki-4 has a big bright viewfinder, and my Zorki-4 has been very reliable. You might also consider a Zorki-6 if that's an option. The Zorki-6 has a longer base length (better focus accuracy) and a hinged back door with built-in take up spool.

As mentioned above, the advantage to getting a Zorki-4 or Zorki-6 is the huge amount of LTM lenses available. The Kiev 2a / Kiev 4a has a smaller selection of lenses -- you can only use lenses designed for Contax mount.

Here's a comparison: Zorki-6 on left, Zorki-4 on right.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I own or have owned nearly all the cameras mentioned (not the Zorki 6) and would say that the Zorki 4 with the lever wind is the most usable or practical and, as others have said, there's a wide range of good quality lenses for it.

It's also easy to find, cheap to buy and cheap to get repaired or checked and adjusted etc.

Of the Kievs mentioned, the Kiev 2a is the one I currently own and would recommend if you want to go down that route. I've had no problems getting lenses etc and not had to pay through the nose for them. Mostly I like the 2a because of the little tab underneath (like my 30's Contax II) that stops it tipping forward when put down...

Looking for any of them with a recent service history is a good idea but I usually look for a clean undamaged camera and take the risk that it might just need repairs. It does mean that I know when/if it's been repaired and I'm the one benefiting from the guarantee.

Regards, David

 

[David Murphy]

I've owned and used them both (more than one of each in fact) and found neither particularly reliable. The earlier Kiev 4's probably have a slight edge in quality (which is overall lacking on both). The Kiev is a copy of the Contax II/III of course sans the German quality, and often replete with light leaks. Just changing the film speed on a Zorki 4 without first advancing the shutter can jam the shutter. The Zorki is a shockingly crude camera internally in many other respects as well.

If you want a nice reliable interchangeable lens rangefinder at modest cost I'd recommend any of the Canon rapid wind LTM models (Canon 7, VT, L, etc.) which have come down in price a lot in recent years and can often be purchased in working condition now for around $100. They are more usable too.

 

[summar]

I had a Zorki 4 and now have a late-model CLA'd Kiev 4a which I bought from a good dealer. I had trouble setting the shutter speed on the Zorki (painted numbers worn off). FSU lenses with the Kiev bayonet mount are a little harder to find but also cheaper; not as popular. I prefer the 4a over the 4 because it has no light meter -- more compact and those old light meters rarely work.
The Kievs are a lot of fun to use and have that nice long rangefinder base. I also liike the focus wheel for the normal lens; many don't.
In the end though it comes down to personal preference and, most important, the condition of the camera.

 

[Fotohuis]

I would made the choice between a Zorki-6 and a Kiev. Earlier models of the Kiev are better build however I have a Kiev-4AM (1980) which is working excellent. Some new nice features are build in too in the later models. But the overall build quality is less then earlier 1950 models. Both cameras I am using daily.

 

[Fotohuis]

Important to say that all my FSU gear had some maintenance and CLA. It is in top condition and some lenses and cameras are even maybe better then they were new.

 

[David Hughes]

H,

If you look here:-

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152320

You will find a thread about the FED 2 which many people think is the best old USSR camera made. It might be worth putting on your list of cameras.

A FED 2, with either the f/2.8 Industar or the f/2 Jupiter 8 and a meter (Leningrad 4 or 8) to have a very pleasant outfit. Chances of getting them very cheaply are high and a complete service and repairs cost very little compared to most other makes of camera.

Add the Japanese Helios view-finder or the KMZ clone of the Zeiss and a few lenses and you won't go wrong.

Regards, David

 

[Fotohuis]

Instead of Russian electronics (exposure meter) I would suggest buy a German exposure meter like a Gossen (e.g. Lunasix-3 (S) with or without spot attachment.)

 

[pschauss]

Among the Zorkis I prefer the Zorki-1s because they are smaller and, being bottom loaders, less subject to light leaks. I don't use the slower speeds so I don't seen any advantage to the Zorki-4.

If you can find one which does not have light leaks and get accustomed to the odd way that you have to hold it, a Kiev 4 is a great camera. I find that mine is easier to focus than a Zorki-1. Also, I think that the extra weight of the camera combined with the vertical shutter makes the camera less subject to vibration at slower speeds.

 

[ForestCap]

I too like Zorki-1 for the compactness with collapsible lens. As a simple camera, fewer parts can go wrong with it.

For the Kiev, I can hardly feel any vibrations when the first shutter curtain closes. The vibration comes after the second curtain closes, but then the exposure is done and there is no need to worry about blurring. I got nice results using 1/10s speed, handheld from a relaxed stance.